COST/ENGINES

[stamfordian]

As, an engineer ,have built engines for racing for myself and other peple both on land and sea i cannot even contenmplate certain folks on this forum habitualy knokinking folks who design and build engines,i refere to the recent very long saga resulting in a web site for v*****o. engines when quiete clearly the person concerned had run his engine into oblianvian. He hasn,t got a clue how to run an engine of 2 cylinders never mind 6.p.s wait till he has 16 to woorry about.Its time an engineer who can,t spell had a go at certain folks who think its ok to have a go at the rates thier charged for repairing thier so called loved machines,...love them more READ the care and maintenace book and pay more atentuion to it.

Yes its being a good night now going to rip somebody else off for charging them for my living

 

[oldgit]

With out passing comment on the unfortunate problems that dom has suffered it does appear that many users of boats need to be aware of the additional problems that machinary in leisure boats are faced with.You will hear time and time again that old nugget that the engine in this or that fishing boat went for 10,000 hrs before rebuild,but that engine will be in use every day week in week out and has been constantly fettled and with the users living/life depended on it ,listening for every tap or vibration out of the ordinary will be the order of the day.
Also access is vital, how easy is it to lift the hatch covers and run an eye over the oily bits perhaps even while under way. If builders told the dimwits who design the wedding cakes that pass for boats nowadays to pay more attention to running the boat rather than to making it look like the starship enterprise perhaps the problem of reliability would be addressed.
It is the customer who somehow needs to be made aware that you cannot assume that your boat is just like your car and the boat builders need to stop building confectionary boats where the money is spent on another microwave/fancy nav gear/swoopy windows instead of on an engine that is big enough to push the whole heap of #### along in the first place..

Exercise is bunk.If you are healthy,you do not need it;if you are sick you should not take it.

 

[tripleace]

excellent comments from both,

How many people actually understand how their boats work and check them daily.

just becuase the boat can go at max revs in reverse, should you do it? would you do the same in your car?

I have to ask the question of what was Dom listerning to while his engine was trying to climb out of the engine bay? was the sound proofing that good?


would you set off on a 4 hour car (motorway) journey without checking the oil and water. Many people do them same with their boats and set off a max revs for 1 2 or 3 hours and wonder why things go wrong.

Yes these are lorry engines but again lorry engines last a long time because they are looked after.

Blow up a lorry engine which is out of oil and you are looking for a job. Construction equipment runs all day every day but its checked regularly!

Boat manufacturers are at fault. MOST build things which cannot be serviced unless you have a crane and 4 hours to get it out of the plastic coffin they have built around it.


If they made the job of checking easier the problems would reduce.

How many of the forum have a generator that they cannot get to? This problem is the fault of the dealers who put what ever they can in places that the boat builders have elected to leave empty because tehy can't use it.

www.cleverdic.co.uk

If you don't need advice - you should not have to pay for it

 

[lanason]

Cars and Boats ARE very differnet. Who only uses their car for a few hours every few weeks.
OK if you buy a new boat you get all the manuals with it, but if its a few years old thats unlikely. I've got none for my 22 year old boat.
So simple things like:-
What grade oil to use
What size oil filter
What grade Spark plugs
Are the ones in the boat at the moment the correct ones ??? or has someone else guessed.....
With a car you can go and buy a Haynes Manual or look up the "what bit fits my car" in the guide in Halford.
The marine industry (to my knowledge) does nothing similar. So Where does ones information come from ???
Two choices "Do it Yourself" / experiance / guess
or ask advice.
IMHO B1's "V**vo" site is the building block to collect together all the experiance and information in one place.
Maybe he could make a fortune writing a Haynes manual for V**vos. (Can I have a "royalty" for the idea please B1 - either that or free e-mails!!)

Adrian



Don't call me "Ian"
Cleopatra - yellow hull called Court Jester. Have you seen her ?

 

[tripleace]

points accepted but surely thats the point if you used the car for few hours every week wouldn't you spend a few mins to check things?

boats are generally never checked until something goes wrong and then its somebody elses fault.

 

[Guest]

Trevor, I may be missing the point here, but I don't see anyone slagging off mechanics or engineers over their rates. Volvo has taken a beating over their after sales service, and spares pricing, but it's hardly the same thing.

I suspect that many if not most people here would price up their own time and decide that it's far more effective to pay a qualified engineer to do the job. They may elect to source their own parts, and use an independent engineer, but so be it. The majority of comments on the Labour Costs thread concluded that boat engineers are charge less per hour than car dealers.

The argument (if any) is with the manufacturers and dealers, not the engineers...

Now, having said all that, tell us about the race engines you worked on, please.

 

[lanason]

Of course you should - but more to point who does and even if they wanted to how do they find out what to check.
So for example if you went down to your boat for the weekend what would your list of "checks" be cus I bet they would be different from everyone elses and how does a new boater get a list together.

So the obvious would be:-
on the engine
Check the Oil level(s)
Check the fan belt
Check the spark plug leads are on properly
Check for leaks (oil and water)
Other things
Check the battery conditions
Check the leg goes up and down
Check the trim tabs work
Check bilge blowers
Check Bilge pump
Check the fuel level
Check the fresh water level

Lets add to this list and create a "work too list" and ideally in priority.

Adrian

Don't call me "Ian"
Cleopatra - yellow hull called Court Jester. Have you seen her ?

 

[DepSol]

I think you should be very careful of what you say without all the facts, if you dont know the full story dont bother trying to flame me!

1 The Volvo engineers ran my boat engine out of the water and it started first time and they could only tell something was wrong with an engineer sat inside the engine bay having a listen and only then did he notice a slight misfire, this is after it sprayed oil everywhere was refilled with oil and ran.
2 They ran a compression test and only then did they find out piston 6 had none.
3 I too have been involved with engines and motorcycle racing I am an ex motorcycle mechanic and do know how to look after and treat an engine. I know what to check for an more importantly I listen to the engine aswell as read my gauges. None of the gauges changed rom the norm.
4 You do not know what the cause of the water ingress was and how it came about, I DO so until YOU DO take a walk.
5 I dont moan about the cost of servicing my boat I know its cheap in comparison to most mechanical things.

You dont have a clue how I run my engine and the process I go through every week to ensure its good health. Prior to this incident my engine and bilge/engine bay were spotless all oil and coolant levels were spot on and there was not a drop of water or dirt in my separ. It ran at the correct temperature and pressure and there was no sign of any problems.



Dom


I just want my boat back in the water ;-(

 

[tripleace]

no offence was meant. It was a general comment about boaters as a whole and the fact that engines are hard to get at.

I agree that water should not get into the engine under ANY conditions: reverse / storm / forward.

I support your efforts and believe you have been a victim

 

[jfm]

Stamfordian you sound like a wrench monkey not a proper engineer. Praps you've assembled engines that someone else designed and made.... big deal. You're quite unfair to blame Dom's engine breakdown on his operating practices, there's no suggestion at all that he operated it incorrectly, he knows what he's doing.

 

[Guest]

Checklist

Nice idea. Maybe Kim could assist as well. A ways back, there was a boat in MBM where one of the "Owner's Improvements" was a set of checklist cards that he'd printed and laminated, covering everything to be done when arriving on the boat, and everything to do before leaving. Very neat, and it enabled non-boaty visitors to help, too.

 

[MikeBrazier]

'Quite clearly the person concerned had run his engine into oblivian' ? Where does he give the facts that got you to decide this then. From reading various posts from DepSol I get the impression that he is quite knowledgable and maticulous, you critisism is unfounded.

If an engine has a design fault which makes it, even extremely rarely, suck up the contents of the exhausts raw water into a cylinder when a simple flap would prevent this then I would definatley blame an engineer. I dont know, but I bet the care and maintainance manual doesnt mention this fault and how to prevent it happening.

 

[halcyon]

Why can I not get a answer to this

the engine has stern drives, Volvo always fitted flaps to the exhaust outlet to stop back feed of water on slowing down/going astern, do they not fit them now ? if they do how did water in volume get past them?, why is everyone assuming open exhausts?.

Have been asking this now for at least 2 weeks, about 6 times now, is no one going to answer ?


Brian

 

[ToMo]

Of course no one is going to answer - no one knows!
<CG>
TôMö

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I happen to own a company which sells large and expensive construction machines and I can tell you that you would be amazed at the abuse and lack of maintenance that these things suffer at the hands of so-called professionals. Yet, it is very rare to experience premature engine failure and any brand of engine which gets a bad reputation is soon shunned by buyers
Leisure boating is a non-professional environment. Whilst it may be desirable for all boat owners to be thoroughly familiar with their engines, the fact is that most of us are not. Indeed why should we be? We expect our cars to run faultlessly between services without opening the bonnet; why should we have to be trained mechanics to run a boat which cost many times more?
The point is that, unlike construction equipment engines or car engines, the kind of modern highly stressed engines produced by Volvo and others are simply not robust enough for their working environment

 

[tripleace]

valid point,

no sensible answerto offer

 

[hlb]

Absolutly correct. If I have to I can be a mechanic. I drove a truck to Saudi Arabia and back 25 times. So if it broke I had to fix it. There was no one else. But apart from a stick stuck in a fuel line One front wheel bearing and a frozen air filter. It did not break down in 250,000 miles. That truck carried 100 tons on its back for the majority of the time. Legal limit in England 32 tons Manufactures weight limit 52 tons. Yes sneaking out of England was a bit scairy! But nothing broke. I dont go looking under my cars bonnet. The wife wouldn't have a clue whats under her J rej. Toyota. It's never had a spare part on it. I've run a business all my life. With countless Motors of all sorts of sizes. Have hardly seen a serious breakdown in all that time. But buy a boat. And it has more gearboxes and Engine repairs, than all the lot put together. Yet it's unlike a car or truck. Imposible to strain. You cant crash through the gears. You cant be heavy on the clutch to rive the gearbox out. I've heared about boat engines living in unfriendly enviroments. But compared with a truck going through 40 deg below to 130 deg above freezing. Carrying 100 tons over mountains, deserts, sand storms, blizards and unmade camel tracks. Theres no contest. Bloody thing only has to go round.

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn

 

[MikeBrazier]

I must be mistaken, I remember reading a post earlier on saying that this particular engine didnt have any kind of non return on the exhaust. I apologise if this is not correct.

 

[halcyon]

I find this facinating from a yachties point of view. I read miles of text moaning about Volvo, and minute technical points, but a basic fundimantal item i.e. the non return flap on the stern drive leg, no one seems to know if they should have one, or if there's is missing. Without this item, every time you deccelerate you will get water up the exhaust system. Volvo used to fit them, my mate has them on his Sealine 185, so I would assume they should be there now, is it worth checking?.


Brian

 

[tr7v8]

I disagree mauals are available, if you don't believe me do a search of ebay.com most seem to be on their. Certainly having just brought a boat I'll be getting manuals for the V.... 140's and the 290 outdrives. I've always done my own maintenance on my toys and I certainly ain't stopping now. In the days when I had an outboard boat on the Thames I got an Evinrude 25 manual for very little money.

Jim
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