Cost difference, IPS v Sterndrive. Worth it without joystick ?

Petrolia

Petrolia

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I have recently got the full price list for Nordwest Boats.

The extra for IPS is not as much as I thought. And surely over half the extra can be attributed to the bigger engines.

New 420
350hp Sterndrive = 340k (inc Vat)
370hp IPS = 351k (Inc Vat)
but it's an ADDITIONAL 10k for the joystick.

So it seems there is no significant price penalty for IPS but there is if you think you need the joystick.

Is it worth getting IPS without joystick ?
I don't think there is any significant economy advantage of IPS over Outdrive. Just maneuverablility.

I've read that IPS uptake generally has been less than expected. Maybe this is why. The joystick system is surely only extra software. I think they'll have to reduce the price.

Overall though I thought the Nordwest prices were not as high as I had expected. More expensive than similar size British boats but the build quality is probably higher and the standard boats are very well spec'd.
 
Intresting prices, when you factor in the potentially higher service costs for outdrives - more parts and anodes to replace at service time, over a period of time the costs may well be similar. Do they quote fuel consumtion figures for a true comparison?
 
Re: Cost difference, IPS v Sterndrive. Worth it without joystick ?

No they don't, but MBM test for 390 suggested extremely efficient hull / engine combination.
My comment regarding economy is based on July MBM test of shaft v outdrive v IPS on the Mustang 42.

Both outdrive & IPs have very similar economy advantage over shafts. I hadn't thought about reduced servicing for IPS though. Interesting. They would probably attract less growth through being under the boat as well.
 
A friend of mine has a 390 with D6 310 and it is a well finished boat that is stylish and subtly different from similar boats. It is a great sea boat and fast as well. I think in the future it will be viewed as a classic.

The problem you mention about uptake is that to get the full advantage of IPS you need to design the boat for IPS and not convert an existing layout or like the another IPS at LIBS you end up with a white leather saloon with a cream carpet and that is the lazarette where you put your filthy fenders and wet greasy deflated dinghy.


I have seen the 420 at LIBS last year and along with their great canape's I was very impressed with the 420 which was only out in outdrive version at the time .

I believe that the joystick can be retro fitted but i doubt if you would do it any cheaper.

I think if there were two similar IPS boats for sale one with the Joystick and one without I would bet the first would get a better price and sell quicker, a bit like a boat with or without a bow thruster it will be of those must have extras.

What is the quoted WOT, acceleration and fuel consumption for the outdrive and the IPS models?

Have you seen the D6 is now rated at 435hp for shaft applications I would not have thought that a D6 435 hp would be that far behind.
 
Re: Cost difference, IPS v Sterndrive. Worth it without joystick ?

Good to hear your great opinion of the 390. It's a shame Nordwest will only have the 420 at SIBS, not 390 & 420 side by side. That would have been good. However I'm going to their yard in Sweden after Southampton so hopefully they will have both boats there.

I have never seen quoted figures for WOT, acceleration & consumption. I'm hoping they will have details at SIBS.

However I would expect even the 310hp IPS/sterndrive 420 to match or beat similar size shaft boats with 370hp in terms of performance. May even match a 430hp shaftdrive. Much more economic as well. (In mpg)

I noticed the VP 435hp version. But is it a D6 ? If so would it not be over tuned and the boat un-necessarily overpowered ?
 
I thought the idea of IPS was more go with less power, and less fuel, but your prices show the IPS has bigger engines?

As for uptake, I personally wouldnt want a joystick (especially not for 10k!). A friend of mine who runs a hire boat had a electro hydraulic steering system on his boat, which had a joystick (think it was a vetus system). It was nothing but trouble, so a mechanical system has now been installed - no electrics or hydraulics to go wrong this time!
 
350hp Sterndrive = 340k (inc Vat)
370hp IPS = 351k (Inc Vat)
Wonder why the extra HP for the IPS, it would negate some of the fuel saving that the system gives?
 
Nothing sinister there. I guess its because the Volvo outdrive leg is not rated for more than 350hp whereas the IPS leg is rated for more
 
Re: Cost difference, IPS v Sterndrive. Worth it without joystick ?

The IPS 370hp was just the closest one to the sterndrive 350hp I was thinking of. They also do a 310hp IPS & I could have quoted that as direct comparison. Sorry.
420, 310hp Sterndrive = 333k
420, 310hp IPS = 344k
Strange. Still 11k difference.

As I mentioned I don't think IPS has significant improved performance over sterndrive. Just maneuverability.
 
Re: Cost difference, IPS v Sterndrive. Worth it without joystick ?

As I understand it you would normally only use the 'joystick' for close maneuvering. Always have the option to stay with manual helm control. Providing the IPS hasn't already caused a crash !

I have another idea. Perhaps it would be better with two helms, one for each drive. Now that would be fun !! Chaos more like !
 
Mmm, thats a v small oncost for IPS, particularly compared to a sterndrive installation which is normally way cheaper, and I'm wondering if Volvo has reduced the cost of IPS to increase market uptake which, if some reports are to be believed, has been lower than expected. The price of the joystick may just be Volvo trying to claw some profit back or may be the builder overcharging for something most peeps will specify anyway. IMHO, the joystick is a must as it makes the most of IPS technology and you'd only regret not having it
There may not be a significant economy advantage of IPS over sterndrive but in IMHO, its a no brainer given the relatively small oncost of IPS. As I've said before, I dont like the idea of a 42' flybridge boat with sterndrives and neither will a lot of people IMHO when you come to sell it. The IPS gives you the feel of a shaftdrive boat with the speed/economy of sterndrives plus the possibility of joystick control. The only thing you have to satisfy yourself with is whether IPS is here to stay in the long term or not
Overall though £350/370k doesnt sound all that cheap to me. I'm sure you could get a new Princess 42 or Sealine F42/5 for that kind of money albeit both with shaftdrive. Is the extra fuel cost of running either of these 2 boats (I dunno, say £1k per year) going to be compensated by reduced depreciation of better known makes?
 
Re: Cost difference, IPS v Sterndrive. Worth it without joystick ?

I wonder how the engine affects the accommodation space? As the engines must be mounted futher forward?

Or is it possible to mount the engines the other way so they face reward? Bit like a engine with V drives is mounted?

The joystick sounds useful as an aid to close quarters monuvering, but is it really worth an extra 5 figures on the price? If the drive are more monuverable anyway, why not use the normal helm controls?
 
I love the IPS concept, but will wait for the 2nd generation (ie allow early adopters fund the product debugging and early evolution). Others may feel the same, hence the slow uptake of leading edge technology. IPS without a joystick is a bit like a PC with out a mouse but with just an old keyboard.
 
Good comments. I wish I knew all the answers.

In my opinion things have to slowly go the way of improved economy, despite reluctance to change from old trusted shafts.

You may be right about people shunning 40ft + outdrives boats. So maybe outdrives are out on 40 ft+ and people will jump straight to IPS. Is IPS here to stay ? Don't know but people probably said the same thing about outdrives on smaller boats and they've not dissappeared.

I tend to agree about IPS being kind of pointless without the joystick. It's just ANOTHER 10k.

I didn't think the Nordwest prices were cheap, just not THAT expensive given how people talk about the quality. And the fact they're built in Sweden where costs must be high. I'm not sure the better known shaft makes will depreciate slower. From my searches for 2nd hand Nordwest boats the prices seem very high.

Again, interesting comments. Thanks.
 
Re: Cost difference, IPS v Sterndrive. Worth it without joystick ?

The engines are further forward but no I don't think they can turn them around like a Z drive.

From the drawings it looks like you have a big space to stand infront of the engines on the outdrive version. Bit like on my boat but more so. On the IPS version it looks like you would open the hatches and look straight down on the engines.

I'm hoping whatever space there is can be usefully used. Anyway mind not completely made up yet. Lots of boats to check out at SIBS for comparisons.
 
[ QUOTE ]
IPS without a joystick is a bit like a PC with out a mouse but with just an old keyboard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats an excellent analogy. I feel like you in that when you're spending £'000k's on a boat, IPS is a bit of a risk. If the system really takes off then the boat will be worth a lot more when you come to sell it but if IPS bombs for any reason, then any IPS equipped boats could turn out to be unsaleable lemons
 
I do see that if joystick control becomes the norm for IPS driven boats, its absence will affect resale value but I am not sure that I can see the benefit purely in terms of controlling the boat.

My experience of joystick control is limited to computer games but I do remember some years ago setting up Grand Prix 3 with a joystick and finding I could do a faster lap time with a wheel. Obviously a joystick will come into its own when there is movement in more than one plane but surely the controls on IPS rotate the drives in only one plane and for most leisure boaters the wheel will be a more intuitive control because of its use in cars.

I am perfectly willing to accept that joystick control has advantages based on real life experience, but at the momement I am just struggling to see why this should be so.
 
I think you've missed the point of the joystick - its for slow-speed, close quarters manoevring only. It gives 3 axis of movement, left-right moves the boat sideways. Fore-aft is obvious. Twist the top of the joystick and the boat spins on the spot.

Once out of the berth you revert back to a wheel as normal.

Rick
 
Stop showing off, some of use can't afford boats like that /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Keep all that info to yourself we just don't want to know.

Pi££ed off and jealous,

Wiggo







/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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