Correct MOB retrieval

Gsailor

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We all know that horizontal lifting is best.

We all know that it is not possible at all times.

I cut this from a previous thread because there are unanswered questions:

Sandy said:
I don't know if the RNLI has a Standard Operating Procedure, I will ask a crew member. One thing that does come to mind it is easier to give 'mouth to mouth' and CPR as you bring a casualty onboard face up.

Fisherman said:
I wrote to them suggesting a stretcher and rail system. Rails across the boat, stretcher slides off the end into the water, casualty, pulled onto stretcher and secured, whole thing slides up and aboard. Casualty is then not in the water in the bottom of the boat and accessible for 1st aid administration. Better supported and secured in case of injury also. No reply

My question is what is wrong with the head first, on their back method?

Is it simply possible damage to back? Or are there other dangers?
 

William_H

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I found something like this second hand for our club rescue boat. used extensivly in mining industry. One man can drag it from one end with patient on board. We had already fitted a crane arrangement and 6 purchase tackle for lifting a person in a life sling. The board does permit sinking under the surface to get a body onto it then hoist horizontal over the side of the mobo by one or 2 people on the rope tackle. It can also then be used to carry the person off the boat by hopefully a number of helpers. The original incentive was when we had an older crew on a KB succumb to illness and was carried from rescue boat to shelter in a wheelbarrow.
The spine board seems a good idea but has not used in anger. Sadly I suspect our rescue boat operators don't even know it is there on the boat.
Note it's use from water to boat would require a person to get into the water to position victim on the board. For this work we provide a buoyancy aid (vest) to wear in the water. Permits swim and work and climb out of water unlike a inflatable life jacket. ol'will
Plastic Spine Board Stretcher 1830 x 450mm
 

thinwater

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Realistically, you are more often lucky to get them on-board at all. In anything but very calm weather, how are you actually going get a person secured into a stretcher or into one of the horizontal lifting rigs? Most crews would refuse to put a swimmer, even tethered, into the water.

For your own use, consider a sailing harness that is more of a body harness than just a crotch strap. With such a harness the swimmer will be vertical, but the load will be much better distributed (I tested this rig with a series of 6-foot falls).
leg straps that put the load on the fanny

Based on a design explored by the US army for one-size-fits-all harnesses, they are designed to be self-adjusting such that they are comfortably loose when sailing, but cinch up correctly without sheering a testicle when you drop onto it. More comfortable than crotch straps.
p1csmro0g91j5k163rh4k1vh71vg86.jpg.webp
 

penfold

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The correct retrieval is any that gets them out of the water. That's what I'm trained for by an OPITO approved training organisation. In an ideal world we'll float casualties with relevant injuries or 20> minutes in the water into our mini-Dacon scoop and retrieve them horizontally, but the priority is getting them into the boat and then onto the ship ASAP, so 9 out of 10 times that will be retrieved vertically, back to the sponson, gripped by the shoulders and then laid as gently as possible into the boat.
 
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Sandy

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As @penfold says above get them out of the water. Think 'Airway Breathing Circulation'. Retrieving a casualty won't happen in calm sea, as usually seen in the training videos, it will be rough or very rough you won't have much time, you will make it up as you go along through the red mist of knowing if you don't get it right somebody might not get home and you will be giving evidence in a Coroners Court.
 

MoodySabre

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A few years ago I ran a retrieval session with a group of East coast sailors. We tried lots of different methods with varying success. There is no "correct way" as it varies from boat to boat and equipment available and sea conditions. We did this on mooring buoys in a 1.5-2 knot tide. The overwhelming result was DON'T FALL OVERBOARD! A male overboard with a female crew in a seaway stands little chance unless he can be tethered and can help himself. a 4:1 or 6:1 billy hanging off a spinnaker halyard and brought back to a winch was as good as anything but not very pleasant for the casualty.

I asked the local RNLI if they could send someone to impart some wisdom and the reply was that they knew nothing about recovery to a yacht.
 

bobgarrett

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Some years ago Chichester Cruiser Racing Club did an exercise with some members which was videoed, each trying their own preferred method. We were anchored and in calm waters. We learned a lot - and the "casualty" survived with only a few bruises. As others have said it all depends on the boat, crew and equipment you have; plus the conditions.
 

Juan Twothree

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I asked the local RNLI if they could send someone to impart some wisdom and the reply was that they knew nothing about recovery to a yacht.
I'm sure that's true. I wouldn't be able to contribute anything to that discussion either, other than pointing out the obvious fact that it's far more difficult than you'd think.

I've met several elderly yachtsman who've told me that if it happened, they'd reach down over the side of the cockpit and pull the casualty aboard.

I don't think so!
 

Graham_Wright

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Some years ago Chichester Cruiser Racing Club did an exercise with some members which was videoed, each trying their own preferred method. We were anchored and in calm waters. We learned a lot - and the "casualty" survived with only a few bruises. As others have said it all depends on the boat, crew and equipment you have; plus the conditions.
That was useful.
One conclusion was that using the boom restricts the height the casualty can be lifted to. Using the masthead halyard enables the casualty to clear the guard rails (not all can be dropped easily).

All performed in benign conditions. In reality, especially with husband/wife crew, very different.

I have wondered if a lsat ditch attempt might be to launch the life raft on a long tether and encircle the MOB as a first step. Losing sight of a MOB is extremely easy especially when two handed.
 

thinwater

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That was useful.
One conclusion was that using the boom restricts the height the casualty can be lifted to. Using the masthead halyard enables the casualty to clear the guard rails (not all can be dropped easily).

All performed in benign conditions. In reality, especially with husband/wife crew, very different.

I have wondered if a lsat ditch attempt might be to launch the life raft on a long tether and encircle the MOB as a first step. Losing sight of a MOB is extremely easy especially when two handed.

Google LifeSling. Very popular in the US. There are also European versions.
MOB-Turn-Lifesling.jpg
 

thinwater

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...

Response on sailing boat recovery not relevant as thread is about head first recovery.


Good luck steering a thread!

---

OK. How do you rig for other than head first recovery ...
  • with 6- to 10-foot waves running,
  • with 30-40-knot winds,
  • and without puting a man in the water?
I honestly do not know and I have never heard of such a thing with a recreational boat. But we are all sincerely interested. The reason the thread drifted is that we are lucky if we can get back to the person and get a hand or line on them, and luckier still if we can hoist them on board in any manner. To make manners even more interesting, probably more than 50% of us sail as couples, and it would be our wife, who may not be an able sailor, figuring this out.

Next, the thread will drift to tethers.
 

RunAgroundHard

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Good luck steering a thread! ...

Indeed, I can't.

I have placed many sailing yachts along side a dummy POB in lots of conditions. The boat the sits along side pushing the MoB to leeward. Yes, for reaching is a risk, even under bare poles and some hull shapes are more difficult to lie a hull. Of course there are conditions where that would be impossible. However, for the majority of conditions, stopping the yacht just upwind and allowing the boat to drift onto the casualty works. They do not go under the hull, they get pushed along.

I have all my lifejackets fitted with LifeSavers, and I carry two extra for guests who prefer to use their own. I insist as part of my Emergency Response planning, that they fit them to their lifejackets or use one of mine. When the MOB is in the water, the l/j inflates and the life saver floats free. It is attached to the lifting strop, or the safety line D ring. There are some lifejackets without D rings or lifting strops, where the LifeSaver can not be used.

As the boat drifts down, I hook the lifesaver, and attach it to the mid ship cleat; MOB is now secure. It takes me less than on minute to rig the MOB lifting tackle to either my spinnaker halyard, port side, or spare genoa halyard, starboard side. One end of the block and tackle is clipped to the guard rail. The halyard is hoisted, via its jammer and the block and tackle is put in place.

The life saver is then attached to the carabiner on the guard wire and the carabiner disconnected from he guard wire. The MOB is then hoisted onboard vertically by the 8:1 tackle, ratchet block, by the recovery crew at the guard rail. One hand can pull the block and load easily, snubbing under knee if the other hand is holding on or stabilising the MOB.

My small in stature wife, can easily lift me in. The system I use is sold by Duncan Wells. It works. They key feature is the LifeSaver fitted to the lifejacket, other lifting arrangements on boats are used e.g. I have seen a powered halyard marked out on the boat, how to use to recover a MOB.
 
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Sandy

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Google LifeSling. Very popular in the US. There are also European versions.
That is good to a point:
  • The person in the water is conscious and can grab hold of the sling; and

  • does not recover the person into the boat
There are all sorts of kit designed to lift a person out of the 'oggin'*, to date I've not seen any of them tested in anything but a glassy calm.

I, like most people (you do don't you?), do a MOB drill every few times out on the water, even with lots of practice you mess it up from time to time in a moderate sea and in a rough one it is hard as 'Bob' keeps disappearing behind waves. On one boat I sail on is 30 metres with about 3 metres between the top of the capping rail and water level we always put somebody over the side to do a horizontal lift.

I understand the teaching about hydrostatic squeeze and the need to lift casualties horizontally comes as a result of winching a casualty from the sea into a helicopter. The length of time a casualty is in a strop, apart from being bloody uncomfortable in my experience, is much much longer than pulling somebody onto a 15 metre yacht.

Moving onto tethers does anybody know why the current standard does not have a locking karabiner on the lifejacket/harness end. I used them all the time when I climbed and am always very conscious that I could accidentally unclip my LifeJacket end on a dark and stormy night.

* the sea
 

Gsailor

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Illustrates my point exactly. I understand the Royal Navy train, with good reason, with human shape and weight dummies.
This is a good point.

As a youngster and lifeguard I had to pass the test of retrieving a human shaped and weighted dummy from the floor of the 12 foot diving pool. I grabbed and lifted and nothing happened.

Running out of air I grabbed again and pushed very hard off the floor of the diving pool and only JUST reached the surface (with a lot of effort) with enough air left in me.

It was an eye opener.
 

Gsailor

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When I did my yachtmaster, the MOB drill was done in November in moderate conditions; certainly not calm.

The Clipper Ventures lost and found a crew member near the Southern Ocean; MOB was wearing survival suit fortunately; he was still pretty cold after recovery though.

I can't find the video but the sea state was pretty bad. Many hands were used to pull him back on board if I remember correctly. The sea state 'may' have helped as a wave brought him level with deck, but I can't remember for sure.

It was certainly a case of "just get him on board" whatever orientation he was in. I think that if they broke his arm during retrieval it would still have been rated a success.
 
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Graham_Wright

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I have a MOB1 and survival suits.

The MOB1 alerts and gives the casualties position to the parent boat and will transmit an "All ships" distress in the hope that its (weak) signal will alert any vessel nearby.

I think that in the event that my beloved cannot be rescued by me and it is obvious that all is lost, I would jump in beside her and we would go down together. We have had a good life and I can't imagine existence without her.
 

RunAgroundHard

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When I did my yachtmaster, the MOB drill was done in November in moderate conditions; certainly not calm.

The Clipper Ventures lost and found a crew member near the Southern Ocean; MOB was wearing survival suit fortunately; he was still pretty cold after recovery though.

I can't find the video but the sea state was pretty bad. Many hands were used to pull him back on board if I remember correctly.

Clipper use a recovery person in a harness who is lowered into the water beside the MOB. The recovery person fits the lifting device and the crew raise the MOB out. It works for them, they have the kit and do the training, with large crew, capable of demarcation of jobs.

 
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