Copper-Ease on engine-related parts?

[Babylon]

I've just finished fitting a replacement heat-exchanger on my Beta 25 and had a hell of a time first disconnecting the exhaust-elbow from back of the old one - one of the M8 bolts was totally seized and its head became so peened over with spanners slipping etc that I had to cut it off with hacksaw! (It didn't matter that the stud remained in the old h/e - crap design that corroded after only four years - as that is destined for the recycling anyway.)

So, the thought occurs to me: should I have used something like Copper-Ease when inserting the steel bolts through the steel exhaust flange into the back of the aluminium heat-exchanger?

Where else should I be using lubricants/sealants/etc on such engine parts? I.E. do proper engineers have all sorts of magic tricks, a bit of Loctite here, a bit of Copper-Ease there, some gasket goo, (if there is such a thing) or do they just rely on nyloc nuts, split washers, etc - and then customers' wallets for when things need fixing?!

 

[Topcat47]

Steel bolts into Aluminium is never a good idea. After an experience like yours, I'd go for Monel bolts and bite the bullet regarding the cost. For steel in steel, I use coppaslip on my motorbikes and old Moggie Minor, but on the boat I find whiteTeflon grease better. Neither last for ever, although I'd not expect a bolt to seize up that badly in only four years. I'm a fan of nyloc nuts, but you have to replace them with new ones which is a bit of a problem for me with the alternator on my 1GM10 so I use shockproof washes there instead.

 

[Poignard]

On my exhaust elbow I use mild steel studs and brass nuts and the nuts are always easy to remove.

 

[Babylon]

I'd not expect a bolt to seize up that badly in only four years.

Its all to do with the crap design of Beta's heat-exchanger (which they've now partially redesigned since I fitted the engine five years ago): the ever-increasing corrosion within it resulted in pressurised coolant forcing its way out under the increasingly distorted filler-neck flange (which I repeatedly tried to fix). Thus much watery coolant had been leaking out the top when motoring, flowing straight back and down onto the exhaust elbow bolts, hence their accelerated seizing.

My other problem is that the coolant drain-off tap at the base of the engine block is blocked, so I can never use to fully drain off old coolant and any other crap in there. I can't unscrew the whole tap-unit from the engine block to clear any obstruction, because its rotation is fouled by the base of the adjacent oil dipstick sleeve, which I'm loathe to remove first because I don't know how it is held in there, and whether I'll be able to get it to properly stick back in place?!

So I've been resorting to using an oil-extractor to suck old coolant out the top of the heat-exchanger, but this only removes half of it each time, so have to refill with water and run the engine, then repeat three times in the hope that I've got rid of as much old coolant and any corroded particle lumps within the whole system as possible, before adding fresh coolant.

Today I'm going to adapt the dinghy inflater pump to see if I can force air up the drain-off tap to clear the obstruction.

Crap design in an engine allegedly designed to be user-friendly, allied with my own lack of engineering skills is not a happy combination!

 

[Babylon]

Steel bolts into Aluminium is never a good idea. After an experience like yours, I'd go for Monel bolts and bite the bullet regarding the cost. For steel in steel, I use coppaslip on my motorbikes and old Moggie Minor, but on the boat I find whiteTeflon grease better.

I'm a fan of nyloc nuts, but you have to replace them with new ones which is a bit of a problem for me with the alternator on my 1GM10 so I use shockproof washes there instead.

Thanks so much for this.

Where can I get small quantities (ie four!) of monel bolts?

Why is white teflon grease better on a boat than coppaslip/copperease? Should I use this when replacing all bolts or just selected ones?

Is a 'shockproof washer' the same as a split washer?

 

[RichardS]

Why is white teflon grease better on a boat than coppaslip/copperease? Should I use this when replacing all bolts or just selected ones?

Is a 'shockproof washer' the same as a split washer?

I use copper grease (or ally grease into aluminium if you prefer but it's not strictly necessary) on all metal fittings. Even brass nuts on exhaust manifolds can eventually seize on if you don't use it. The only place not to use it is where it might come into contact with internal mechanicals.

I use marine white grease in some applications but it's not teflon and therefore under hot conditions will burn off. I'm not sure whether teflon will burn off /dry out eventually.

Shockproof washers are probably the "star/castellated" ones where each catellation is slightly twisted. Do the same job as spring washers but tend to be used in lower torque fastenings in my experience.

Richard

 

[BabaYaga]

Today I'm going to adapt the dinghy inflater pump to see if I can force air up the drain-off tap to clear the obstruction.

Have you already tried to clear the tap with a piece of slightly bent steel wire?
That solved the problem for me.

 

[Babylon]

Have you already tried to clear the tap with a piece of slightly bent steel wire?
That solved the problem for me.

Tried several times, but suspect there's a longer term accumulation of crud nesting further in.

 

[Babylon]

I even thought about emptying two bottles of cider vinegar into the system temporarily to help break down any internal build-up of crud, but erred on the side of 'culinary' caution!

 

[Topcat47]

Thanks so much for this.

Where can I get small quantities (ie four!) of monel bolts?

Why is white teflon grease better on a boat than coppaslip/copperease? Should I use this when replacing all bolts or just selected ones?

Is a 'shockproof washer' the same as a split washer?

The supplier I used has stopped servicing the retail market. I' would try "Classic Marine" if I needed some now as they have a stock of "special" fasteners. The thing to look out for is dissimilar metals. Steel and Aluminium are electrolytically diverse and aluminium oxide is much less dense than the metal, which is how steel fasteners seize in the aluminium. 1950's Triumph Mayflower heads would grip head bots so firmly we used to have special thin-wall drills to slide over the studs and cut through the corrosion so we could remove the heads. This was just the head gripping the bolts through holes as the blocks were cast steel.

I find Teflon grease tends to persist longer than coppaslip which may be because it's more water resistant. On my boat, I use it whenever waterproof grease is required as it doesn't harden into a paste. Blake.'s Seacock grease is similar in this respect and I use this when servicing my seacocks. They are interchangeable for most marine applications in my experience, the White Teflon grease is less unsightly. It works on the exhaust manifold on my 1GM10 so it's ok in high temp environments.

ShakeProof washers have butterfly crenellations around the outside edge and again, experience suggests this is better than split Spring washers in high vibration environments.

 

[BabaYaga]

IIRC the winged handle could be unscrewed and taken off. Then by inducing a bend in the (right kind of) steel wire it could make the 90 deg turn and reach quite a bit into the engine. But perhaps the blockage is still further in. I would be surprised if there was corrosion, though, (vinegar) with all the inhibitors...