Copper antifoul

Mister_Smee

Mister_Smee

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Well we are in the process of moving from our Monterey 250 up to a Phantom 38, ready for next season. I can feel more tuition coming on!!!
Prior to handover she will be fully antifouled and I thought I would give one of the copper types a go.
We have a choice of the following
eco sea
or
Copper Coat
I wonder who is using either of these and what you think of them.
 
I have seen lots of boats being lifted for a pressure wash.

The copper ones foul as quickly than a resonable anti fouling.

The copper ones cost a fortune to put one.

The ones which are copper particles sprayed on to a glue layer appear to slow the boat down, I have seen 1.5 knots down on a 45ft semi displacement. Think of the extra fuel cost.


The copper ones appear to cause the anodes to fizz like Alka Seltzers. and several i have seen come out of the water with no zinc left on the strips.

The copper ones are difficult to overcoat and would probably require particle blasting to remove.

All boats need to be lifted at least once a year to change anodes and check everything.

I use a self polishing antifouling , Optima and it works great.

Antifouling makes a lot more sense than Copper coatings.
 
Many on here have simply added copper powder into "standard" antifoul with - apparently - good results. It seems it's much cheaper and quite simple to do once you've ordered/mixed in your powder, although I can't speak from personal experience.

Congrats on the Phantom 38 front !
 
hm, yes, bandit doesn't seem to speak from experience.

Following research from no1_moose, i mixed 250micron copper with trilux 1kilo per litre and have zero barnacles on grp hull for almost two seasons. A big saving.

The fizzing anodes is bollx as well. I fitted a galvanic isolator and have more than doubled anode life.
 
yes, had more fun at the boat show taunting the copperbot (if not them, then a similar name) people with lots of questions like "how does it work?" "amazing stuff isn't it, who worked it all out and why is it so cheap at 7 gazillion pounds?"

had them going for a few minutes before revealing the photos of our hull after a year with self mixed coppery paint ,,,,,I was encouraged to enter the free prize draw and clear off.

Q. for Bandit, what's the main active ingredient of most commonly bought antifouling paints, erm, including micron optima?
 
And while we are on the subject of bollix, Bandit's claim that All boats need to be lifted at least once a year to change anodes and check everything. is bollix as well.

If it isn't bollix then someone needs to tell our own boat it should be falling apart faster so's it can get lifted every year, and also the other 10's of (100's of?) thousands of well run boats around the world that also are not.

John
 
do you think this marvelous mix always works, or works better in some locations, or depending on boat use? Bit curious why if its so good Acmefouling or someone dont chuck it out for next to nothing?
 
You guys are getting all mixed up.

Mr Smee is talking about sprayed on copper particles and copper particles in an epoxy resin.

I am fully aware that the active ingredient in most traditional antifoulings is copper but there is a big difference between these and what mr Smee is talking about.

There are issues over anode erosion with the type Mr Smee is talking about and there is a huge ingoing cost as well as eventually a removal cost at the end of its life.

Where I live barnacles are not a great problem but weed growth is , I notice that weed growth on the Type that Mr Smee is talking about is no better than a lot of traditional antifoulings and not as good as some of the better traditional ones.

It is daft to not lift your boat on at least an annual basis to inspect the hull, replace anodes, check Outdrives or shafts rudders propellers and cutless bearings etc . To have a shorepower problem go unnoticed for too long is an expensive issue. The cost of a lift out and pressure wash is not huge and the downside of not doing so and inspecting the boat can be massive.

I just do not believe the Type Mr Smee is talking about is a better way to go tha traditional antifouling.
 
It is daft to not lift your boat on at least an annual basis to inspect the hull, replace anodes, check Outdrives or shafts rudders propellers and cutless bearings etc .

Well I guess you had better go and tell the many regulatory authorities around the world and commercial small boat operators who think that once every 2 years is quite enuff that they are daft, as well as telling the many very competent pleasure boat owners who do the same.

There again, if one does not have the knowledge to set a boat up so that lifts do not need to be every year then perhaps for those peeps annually or even monthly might be appropriate.

{PS Do you know how frequently ships get dry docked? I guess not, but using your measure in terms of quantities of daftness you would consider them more than twice as daft as everyone else.}

John
 
Any details on the galvanic isolator you fitted, tcm? I'm currently changing anodes about twice a season and I'm getting fed up with it
 
i googled and found a place in leeds probably called "galvanic isolators .co .uk " or suchlike. Nice info as i remeber. It was about 75 quid and i paid a sparks 50quid to fit it. I think it does some clever isolating of the earth but magically knects it back if the the earth is ever used. You also get a test function to knect a 9v battery to see if all ok. Definitely rec'd.
 
No, we aren't mixed up and many here have been experimenting with sort of thing on bigger crusiing boats for some years.

What's the "big difference" between copper-enriched antifoul, and resin or paint mixed with copper?

Mr smee is talking about putting raw copper mixed with resin stuff on the hull. Using tough paint, manually mixed with raw copper is the same sort of technology.

Also, there need be no"huge removal cost" - there are lots of relativly cheap and rapid ways of hull stripping, many discussed here too.

Copper oxides deter barnacles, not weed growth. though weed groeth accelerates if barnacles povide a base for roots to grip,imho,so copper products likely to reduce weed growth.

Not necessary to lift boat as divers can do this far cheaper for a larger boat. And the boat gets wet again the second you put it back in.
 
I put coppercoat on my boat at the beginning of this season and it works very well. Boats close to me in the marina foul up much quicker. I have not had any growth stuck to the coppercoat this season, just a slight slime. I'd recommend it. I had originally used standard antifoul on the boat from new for 4 years. It doesn't compare to coppercoat.

And I think Bandit is talking rubbish. All hear say and no personal experience.
 
A Galvanic isolator is only really a couple of big diodes connected back to back.
I believe it works by having a natural high resistance at voltages less than 1.5v whilst allowing high currents to pass in an emergency.
It is fitted between the shore power earth and the boat's bonding system.

I would have thought your boat would already have one fitted.

Have you seen this web page
 
Well blow me down , and i thought i was on the motor boat forum when I was on the supertanker forum , sorry!!!!

I assume most boats on this forum with the exception of your coaster or MFV are probably planning boats .

With a liesure boat rather than a ship which has longer inspection periods of two or more years except passenger vessels of course which are normally one year, liesure planing boats need to keep a clean bottom to perform well and the underwater equipment is more susceptible to corrosion etc than say a supertanker.

Especially small boats with outdrives made of aluminium, i am sorry do supertankers have aluminium outdrives with stainless props ?

Then consider developing shore power problems for those that need to leave shore power on in case they want a cold beer , a problem is expensive underwater.

With the spray on particle copper finish which is as rough as coarse sand paper and does give s speed drop I have seen accelerated anode wear and a speed drop as well as a large application cost , i just dont consider it cost effective.

I also prefer to have a boat ( 11 ton , 25 knots with shafts) with a good top speed as low as possible fuel consumption and with the props and cutless bearings as well as rope cutters in a good condition althouhh this probably does not apply to your supertanker.
 
Well that went well didn't it /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.

Thanks for all of the replies so far. I posted the question because when lifting mr smee at the end of the summer there was a lovely long shag pile carpet of weed growth which after pressure washing concealed the largest collection of barnacles ever all over the whole hull.
I am really looking to reduce or even eliminate the growth and its effect on speed etc, not reduce the need to lift and wash each year.
I must admit that on the basis of cost coppercoat wouls appear to be the most cost effective option.
Any further advice would be welcomed.

Cheers all

Stuart
 
Slurry blasted, epoxied then Copperbotted, total cost about £1.2K and so far very pleased with results. However, I only run at displacement speeds and time is split between inland and sea. Talked to about a dozen people who had copperbotted before committing myself. All those with displacement hulls were enthusiasts but of those with planeing hulls about half had reservations.
 
Supertankers! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.

I am talking pleasure boats and pleasure boat sized commercial vessels - I actually said "commercial small boat operators" - (and I introduced those smaller commercial vessels as I have been involved in managing the periodic inspections for several thousand of them so have pretty good experience in what they think is appropriate) - reread my post when you have calmed down a bit.

Is obvious you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

John
 
I have a further question for the planing hull owners then.
If this reduces the growth to just slime does this wash off the hull at planing speeds of about 20kts?
I am still thinking of using the stuff, but if the cost is far more than the benefit whats the point??
Cheers all
 
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