Convert cannister liferaft to valise??

[Robert Wilson]

Convert canister liferaft to valise??

Anybody know if I could ditch my liferaft's cannister and convert it to a valise type? (custom-made or "off the shelf"?)
My cannister 4 person liferaft is awkward to mount on my Javelin30.
I've tried placing it in front of the mast, but this impedes the the forehatch, and any work by the mast.
I then moved it to the cabin-top, but this gets in the way of work on the boom/mainsail stowing; it also impedes forward vision and looks ungainly.
I thought that a valise could be stowed below when away from the boat, and then stowed on the lazzarette when aboard.

What do the wise ones and practical ones think?

PS The liferaft is due for service next autumn. So another option might be to keep said item for another "unserviced year, or two" then ditch the lot and replace it with a valise type. Lack of splash-out-able funds is significant.

 

[sailorman]

Anybody know if I could ditch my liferaft's cannister and replace it with a valise? (custom-made or "off the shelf"?)
My cannister 4 person liferaft is awkward to mount on my Javelin30.
I've tried placing it in front of the mast, but this impedes the the forehatch, and any work by the mast.
I then moved it to the cabin-top, but this gets in the way of work on the boom/mainsail stowing; it also impedes forward vision and looks ungainly.
I thought that a valise could be stowed below when away from the boat, and then stowed on the lazzarette when aboard.

What do the wise ones and practical ones think?

PS The liferaft is due for service next autumn. So another option might be to keep said item for another "unserviced year, or two" then ditch the lot and replace it with a valise type. Lack of splash-out-able funds is significant.

i done it the other way round.
bought a raft in a valise from a forumite took it to Suffolk Sailing who found a Zodiac box + applied all the Zodiac stickers £ 100

what make raft is yours as i still have the 4 man valise

 

[Robert Wilson]

i done it the other way round.
bought a raft in a valise from a forumite took it to Suffolk Sailing who found a Zodiac box + applied all the Zodiac stickers £ 100

what make raft is yours as i still have the 4 man valise

That sounds interesting. From what you are saying it would be possible/feasible?
I'm not sure of the make (I bought it from Gael Force, Inverness). Looking at other cannisters, I reckon they are all about the same dimensions when packed and I would think the "gubbins" would fit more easily into a valise than the other way round?

What sort of £ would you be looking for, please?
Perhaps it would be better (for me!!) to PM me rather than have the "car-booties" scrabbling in a dutch auction

 

[sailorman]

this might be mine

http://www.surviteczodiac.com/LRDocs/Datasheets/4TOLPC.pdf

 

[Tranona]

PS The liferaft is due for service next autumn. So another option might be to keep said item for another "unserviced year, or two" then ditch the lot and replace it with a valise type. Lack of splash-out-able funds is significant.

When you get it serviced ask for it to be repacked in a valise. Get a quote from your servicing agent.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I have a valise type and am planning to have it packed in a canister at the next service. It's much more convenient (imho) to have a canister. The valise always gets in the way below decks and is not very waterproof on deck.

 

[awol]

T'was a few years ago, mind, but I failed in my attempt to go from valise to canister on an old raft. Problem was recertification of a bastard ensemble 'cos there was apparently no way of sourcing the correct model canister from the raft manufacturer. Ended up ebaying the raft and buying new.

 

[FishyInverness]

Robert, if i'm correct in looking, I think yours is a Wetline liferaft. We found out (a little late unfortunately), that some service stations wont service them, though not 100% sure why.

I would put the question to unipart marine, as they have these manufactured, feel free to drop me a p/m to get some contact details.

Nik

 

[macd]

I'd think twice about storing a liferaft in a lazarette whilst at sea. Obviously it will depend on the size/accessibility of the locker, but I once tried storing my liferaft in such a place, only to find it took an age to get it out. Of course you could hope to have a leisurely abandon ship, but I suspect most are done in a hurry. (Touch would that you never have need for either).

 

[wotayottie]

If you do go for a valise and end up with a surplus stainless steel cradle, I would be interested.

 

[Robert Wilson]

I'd think twice about storing a liferaft in a lazarette whilst at sea. Obviously it will depend on the size/accessibility of the locker, but I once tried storing my liferaft in such a place, only to find it took an age to get it out. Of course you could hope to have a leisurely abandon ship, but I suspect most are done in a hurry. (Touch would that you never have need for either).

Hi, thanks for your comments, I wholeheartedly agree.
However, I thought it could go on the lazarette, ready for a "quick getaway" - heaven forbid! I struggle to get anything more into my lazarette, once the fuel cans, 4 fenders, kedge and warp, mooring lines, outboard, tins, etc etc are inside.

What I have realised, and it fills me with dread is that these things are heavy. Fine, as you correctly point out, if it's calm and all crew are fit, unharmed and compus mentis - but I reckon in a heavy-weather abandonment the raft's weight would be a major problem.
With this in mind, I am less than keen on a heavy, slippery handle-less cannister type and feel a valise is more managable.
Anybody any thoughts on that last remark??

 

[sailorman]

Hi, thanks for your comments, I wholeheartedly agree.
However, I thought it could go on the lazarette, ready for a "quick getaway" - heaven forbid! I struggle to get anything more into my lazarrete, once the fuel cans, 4 fenders, kedge and warp, mooring lines, outboard, tins, etc etc are inside.

What I have realise, and it fills me with dread is that these things are heavy. Fine, as you correctly point out, if it's calm and all crew are fit, unharmed and compus mentis - but I reckon in a heavy-weather abandonment the raft's weight would be a major problem.
With this in mind, I am less than keen on a heavy, slippery handle-less cannister type and feel a valise is more managable.
Anybody any thoughts on that last remark??

my 4 man zodiac is actually heavier then the 6 man BFA it replaced & the canister is larger.
on the upside, how many leisure rafts are used in anger in the UK in a year

 

[Robert Wilson]

If you do go for a valise and end up with a surplus stainless steel cradle, I would be interested.

Good to see some people are on the ball so early in the morning!!
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but my cannister was/is on a home-made wooden base, atop the cabin.
Mind you, bearing in mind the hours of planning, measuring, crafting and painting - not to mention the considerable cost of a bit of marine-ply - then my bracket would be worth a lot of money......

 

[Robert Wilson]

my 4 man zodiac is actually heavier then the 6 man BFA it replaced & the canister is larger.
on the upside, how many leisure rafts are used in anger in the UK in a year

Probably very, very few - and without tempting fate, I sincerely hope the only time I see inside my liferaft (or anybody else's for that matter) is at service time!!

 

[macd]

You do see life-rafts in some strange places, and it's worth some real-world input about what works (rather than the idle conjecture an abandon-ship virgin like me can offer).

That said, a few thoughts:
usually, their location is a design afterthought. Surely they should be located where a) gravity will best help the launch; b) where they're quickly accessible to crew; and c) where they'll tend to land in an accessible place (near the stern quarter?) Forward of the mast self-evidently (to me) makes little sense (although it's perhaps less undesirable on a centre cockpit vessel). My new boat has a custom-built quick-release cover on the transom. It's not the worst set-up, but certainly not the best, either: getting into a raft off a wildly pitching stern doesn't sound ideal. But then very little about abandoning ship is ideal.

Opinions welcome (with apologies if this is a thread high-jack).

 

[Robert Wilson]

Robert, if i'm correct in looking, I think yours is a Wetline liferaft. We found out (a little late unfortunately), that some service stations wont service them, though not 100% sure why.

I would put the question to unipart marine, as they have these manufactured, feel free to drop me a p/m to get some contact details.

Nik

To all who read or post on the forum(s).
Just to confirm, in no way was I wishing to criticise Gael Force. I have had excellent service from them over the years I have dealt with them, and I mean excellent.
Apart from that, the staff and management are always so cheerful and courteous - how do they manage that when dealing with we bloomin' customers?

 

[Robert Wilson]

You do see life-rafts in some strange places, and it's worth some real-world input about what works (rather than the idle conjecture an abandon-ship virgin like me can offer).

That said, a few thoughts:
usually, their location is a design afterthought. Surely they should be located where a) gravity will best help the launch; b) where they're quickly accessible to crew; and c) where they'll tend to land in an accessible place (near the stern quarter?) Forward of the mast self-evidently (to me) makes little sense (although it's perhaps less undesirable on a centre cockpit vessel). My new boat has a custom-built quick-release cover on the transom. It's not the worst set-up, but certainly not the best, either: getting into a raft off a wildly pitching stern doesn't sound ideal. But then very little about abandoning ship is ideal.

Opinions welcome (with apologies if this is a thread high-jack).

No apologies necessary, it's a good drift and one which I hope will be taken up by the wise and experienced.
I suppose there is no ideal place and I agree, from a pitching stern sounds a nightmare - as does attempting to get to a pitching foredeck then manouevre a heavy, cumbersome cannister, whilst possibly injured and definitely scared-s**tless!
It's a worry, and one which makes worse the task of calmly, politely and cheerfully making safety-instructions to newcomers to one's boat, and possibly sailing at all. What really worries me, as often I'm the only "experienced??" member of the crew is what do they all do if I'm the one who is incapacitated? SCARY.

 

[macd]

What really worries me, as often I'm the only "experienced??" member of the crew is what do they all do if I'm the one who is incapacitated? SCARY.

Quite. It took me a while to recognise that with only inexperienced crew aboard, it's paramount to regard yourself as the most important person on board. That isn't vanity or selfishness: it's in everyone's best interests (providing you don't go all Blighy on them). Still, back to liferafts...

 

[Robert Wilson]

Quite. It took me a while to recognise that with only inexperienced crew aboard, it's paramount to regard yourself as the most important person on board. That isn't vanity or selfishness: it's in everyone's best interests (providing you don't go all Blighy on them). Still, back to liferafts...

Perhaps someone should design a neat, unobtrusive container/locker set into decks which, at the press of a button, shoots the liferaft into the air/water like a depth-charge as seen on war films - with a strong painter, of course

 

[Tranona]

If you read the (very few) reports of liferafts actually deployed from yachts you will found that launching them and boarding is problematic - even when they inflate as required, which does not happen always. The only time they have been trouble free is on the rare occasion when it has been an orderly evacuation of a slowly sinking vessel in calm waters.

Most deployments are in extreme conditions when it is difficult to predict what might be the best way of launching. So the accounts from survivors echo what you are saying - there is no reliable way of deploying a raft from a small boat in danger of foundering. In theory a cradle on the transom with a hydrostatic release is the "best" way, and is commonly used on fishing boats. However, AFAIK there have been no cases of such an arrangement being used in anger on a yacht and the record on fishing boats is not good. However, you need to recognise that fishing boats founder (usually) as a result of snagging nets and capsizing. Sometimes they are found on the bottom with the liferaft still attached!

The chances of you needing to use the raft are just about zero, and the outcome unpredictable. The best thing you can do is to go on the survival course so that at least you have an idea what you might do in an emergency. One thing is for sure, it will convince you never to get into the situation where you need to rely on a liferaft. Best safety device ever! (Doing the course, that is)