Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

Looks like we are heading back to the 1800's. The only way to realistically go zero emission on the coast by 2050 is to revert to sail. OK, we could have electric motors for the little bit at each end, but on passage it will be sail only, unless someone invents something very powerful and totally clean in the next 30 years.
 
CLB said:
Looks like we are heading back to the 1800's. The only way to realistically go zero emission on the coast by 2050 is to revert to sail. OK, we could have electric motors for the little bit at each end, but on passage it will be sail only, unless someone invents something very powerful and totally clean in the next 30 years.
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Logical, but impractical.
I guess the cost of replacing my donk with an electrical motor plus batteries of, as yet, undeveloped performance would render my 40+ year old GRP tub redundant.
I may have only another decade of sailing (or more, or less) and I don't think I could, or would be prepared, spend the sort of money involved on the old girl.
The end of my reasonably inexpensive and enjoyable freedom to sail where, when and how I am accustomed to.

P.S. This thread is becoming convergent with the other two so I'm reverting to them.
Bye for now folks.
R
 
CLB said:
Looks like we are heading back to the 1800's. The only way to realistically go zero emission on the coast by 2050 is to revert to sail. OK, we could have electric motors for the little bit at each end, but on passage it will be sail only, unless someone invents something very powerful and totally clean in the next 30 years.
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Electric .
Upside .
Actually it would be a very simple job to convert my boat and virtually every other sort of boat to electric for some sort of displacement propulsion.
Normally lugging 3 monster batteries and ton or so of fuel around anyway not sure how much more a decent set of batteries would add to the boat weightwise.
Could well adapt my sort of boating to a 6/7 knot lifestyle, downside would be endurance and the need for charging points.Most of my trips are usually 2/4 hours in duration max with most of the day spent moored or at anchor.
My Boat spends most of its life quietly falling to bits on the pontoon anyway so plenty of time to slowly trickle charge batteries
The sort of boating usually done on the Thames would be ideal for electric boats, merely a case of getting charging pylons installed to public and private moorings.
Most marinas and boatyards will supply 16amps to your shorepower socket .
You could use charging pylons for shore power.No more flat domestics and No charge card credit no power.
If you want to moor away most vessels should be able to spend 24 hours on domestics anyhow.
and the big plus...............Fresh Air and no pollution from oil or fuel.

Downsides.Lack of range. ?
Probably need a small get you home back up genny installed.
Speed merchants would loose interest in boating.
 
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I sent the following...

Dear sir, as a liesure boat owner, I'd like to add my thoughts for consideration.

Whilst I acknowledge that modern engines are cleaner and more efficient than older ones, emmisions must still be related to the amount of fuel burnt.

I have a 30 foot boat on the Thames, fitted with a single 62hp diesel engine, and it consumes 1.5 litre per hour.

This compares to a car with a fuel consumption of say 35mpg equating to 9 litre per hour when traveling along the motorway in top gear at 70mph. The same car will consume nearer 15 litres per hour in traffic.

Trucks and busses are neared to 20 litre per hour while cruising in top gear, and far more while stopping and starting in traffic in low gears.

Most days on the river I see just one or two other boats; in the height of the season I may see 20 or so other boats on the move, in the winter I can cruise all say and see none. Whereas we have hundreds of thousands of cars, trucks and busses on our roads, not to mention the vast number of aircraft over-head all measuring thier fuel consumption in tons per hour.

I feel the leisure boat contribution to emissions is incredibly small.

Yours
Mark Carpenter
 
How hard could it be to retro fit a filter of some sort to a marine engine exhaust .Weight is hardly a problem and usually some unused space somewhere.
Would have thought that boats on an inland non tidal navigation would be ideal testbed to try to eliminate exhaust emmisions especially from craft such as narrowboats etc .
One could imagine opposition might come for those with large sea going vessels presently moored on the navigation.
Suspect support would come from everybody else using the river/canal including walkers/cyclists/rowers and fishermen who probably represent the majority of folks who enjoy being on/near the water.
 
oldgit said:
How hard could it be to retro fit a filter of some sort to a marine engine exhaust .Weight is hardly a problem and usually some unused space somewhere.
Would have thought that boats on an inland non tidal navigation would be ideal testbed to try to eliminate exhaust emmisions especially from craft such as narrowboats etc .
One could imagine opposition might come for those with large sea going vessels presently moored on the navigation.
Suspect support would come from everybody else using the river/canal including walkers/cyclists/rowers and fishermen who probably represent the majority of folks who enjoy being on/near the water.
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Won't be easy on many types of boats. Shaft drive probably the easiest, as the exhaust systems are more open to modification, but stern drives and outboards, where the exhaust is integrated, would be difficult to impossible. Weight and space 'are' a problem on many smaller boats.

I know this next statement will be controversial, but the walkers, fisherman, cyclists, rowers on the Thames, can only 'enjoy' the river in its current state thanks to the contribution of the boaters. If the boaters leave in any great numbers due to expensive or unrealistic regulations, the river will not be the same.
 
Mark26 said:
I sent the following...

Dear sir, as a liesure boat owner, I'd like to add my thoughts for consideration.

Whilst I acknowledge that modern engines are cleaner and more efficient than older ones, emmisions must still be related to the amount of fuel burnt.

I have a 30 foot boat on the Thames, fitted with a single 62hp diesel engine, and it consumes 1.5 litre per hour.

This compares to a car with a fuel consumption of say 35mpg equating to 9 litre per hour when traveling along the motorway in top gear at 70mph. The same car will consume nearer 15 litres per hour in traffic.

Trucks and busses are neared to 20 litre per hour while cruising in top gear, and far more while stopping and starting in traffic in low gears.

Most days on the river I see just one or two other boats; in the height of the season I may see 20 or so other boats on the move, in the winter I can cruise all say and see none. Whereas we have hundreds of thousands of cars, trucks and busses on our roads, not to mention the vast number of aircraft over-head all measuring thier fuel consumption in tons per hour.

I feel the leisure boat contribution to emissions is incredibly small.

Yours
Mark Carpenter
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Well put Mark
 
Croftie said:
Well put Mark
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Only the boaters need opening locks everybody else mentioned could carry on with their enjoyment perfectly well without them and they are paying (unknowingly ) 50 % towards its upkeep.
As for small boats not being a problem , just multiply those little problems by 4 or 5 thousand on the Thames alone..
Its also the China Syndrome, why pick on me , when there are much worse offenders out there !
 
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Captain Coochie said:
got the ole 2 stroke fired up today and went for a pootle . Thats my years worth of smog quota :D
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to do that properly. you need a really early Seagull, preferably with 15.1 mix and a dash more old sump oil for luck. just in case.
Dreadful things and guaranteed to leave your car boot reeking of petrol for ever and ever . :)
 
oldgit said:
to do that properly. you need a really early Seagull, preferably with 15.1 mix and a dash more old sump oil for luck. just in case.
Dreadful things and guaranteed to leave your car boot reeking of petrol for ever and ever . :)
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Wonderful devices - if only because nobody wants to nick them...
Nice big blades on the prop - excellent for cutting through the ever incerasing amount of weed on the River.
Easier to start tnah modern small engines witn their short length of starting cord - a metre or so of 6mm line wrapped round the 'pulley' gets it going (eventually).....
 
TrueBlue said:
Wonderful devices - if only because nobody wants to nick them...
Nice big blades on the prop - excellent for cutting through the ever incerasing amount of weed on the River.
Easier to start tnah modern small engines witn their short length of starting cord - a metre or so of 6mm line wrapped round the 'pulley' gets it going (eventually).....
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I find there are two types of Seagull motors.
Those that start; and those that don't - ever!
 
Robert Wilson said:
I find there are two types of Seagull motors.
Those that start; and those that don't - ever!
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invariably the latter.........and stinky car boot syndrome....
Trick was to shut off fuel early and hope to completely drain carb bowl ...never worked of course. Working out when to shut the tap going ashore and still hope to have propulsion to get you to your destination was a black art and of course if you had no oars aboard, you had to somehow get the evil thing started again :)

As soon as you laid it down some fuel always dribbled onto car boot carpet.
To my knowledge one or two went into davy jones locker in a fit of temper.
 
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oldgit said:
invariably the latter.........and stinky car boot syndrome....
Trick was to shut off fuel early and hope to completely drain carb bowl ...never worked of course. Working out when to shut the tap going ashore and still hope to have propulsion to get you to your destination was a black art and of course if you had no oars aboard, you had to somehow get the evil thing started again :)

As soon as you laid it down some fuel always dribbled onto car boot carpet.
To my knowledge one or two went into davy jones locker in a fit of temper.
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A 'Gull is a living thing, God wot. Treat it with reverence and kindness, possibly including some strange incantation and 'ye shall be rewarded'. I fine a liberal does of some Snake Oil also helps.
Great to test on dry land and in a workshop - as the impeller is solid and doesn't require water.
Remember, they were desinged for military use - cross one river and then be dumped, thus a tribute to British Engineering (now dead) that many of them still work.

As with any quirky device there are still faithful followers - including suppliers of parts -
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/
https://www.sheridanmarine.com/boatyard/contact

This latter ls preserves another British 'anachronism' - the Freeman cruiser...
 
TrueBlue said:
A 'Gull is a living thing, God wot. Treat it with reverence and kindness, possibly including some strange incantation and 'ye shall be rewarded'. I fine a liberal does of some Snake Oil also helps.
Great to test on dry land and in a workshop - as the impeller is solid and doesn't require water.
Remember, they were desinged for military use - cross one river and then be dumped, thus a tribute to British Engineering (now dead) that many of them still work.

As with any quirky device there are still faithful followers - including suppliers of parts -
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk/
https://www.sheridanmarine.com/boatyard/contact

This latter ls preserves another British 'anachronism' - the Freeman cruiser...
Click to expand...

Recently had a clear out of dads shed, must have been a dozen Seagulls in varying states of festering heap lying around.
One or two actually ran.All snapped up on Ebay.
Couple of really early ones.
He did rebuild one (cobble together) using parts lying around, when I foolishly mentioned in passing was looking for a small outboard to power an inflatable.
Quickly removed the davits from boat,no dinghy no need for outboard.
Lucky escape. !
 
It might be enough to include visible exhaust smoke in the four yearly BSS.
All too often we find ourselves stuck behind 40 foot palaces belching out smoke. The owners excuse (those that like to appear concerned) is often that the engines never get used hard enough. Well rubbish, if you can allude to affording a boat looking like its worth hundreds of thousands then pay someone to fix it or get us all banned!
 
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