Considering new sails

NigelFortune

NigelFortune

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Have had several quotes for new sails, furling Genoa + Mainsail for my Sigma 33c. All local sailmakers giving quotations around the same. Got one quote from Far East Sailmakers HK considerably less than the locals. Would love to trade locally but saving will pay for 6 months cruising. Does the price reflect the quality of the goods or is it just down to slave labour and quantity ? Any feed back about the above would be appreciated.

Nigel
 
I have seen some excellent sails from HK Sails, but when it came to buying myself, I ordered from a company making here. I could talk to the sailmakers, lay out old ones and say what I wanted different in the new ones. The new genoa I got last year was very good: I have a new mainsail this spring not bent on yet.

I worked for many years in HK, and both there and in Guangdong nearby you can get excellent workmanship, as long as the supervision is good. Labour in HK is not that cheap: over the border in Guangdong much cheaper - not 'slave labour' but compared to the west very different expectations of what represents a good wage and conditions for workers.
 
Have you checked what the duty/VAT position would be? Boat sails (I believe) from HK have an import duty of 12% plus VAT of 20%. I got a quote for a spinnaker and it initially looked brilliant. After duty & VAT it's still a good deal but not brilliant.
 
The complaints about sails from the Far East are usually about the quality of the cloth. I think you would need to ensure that the cloth was like for like before comparing quotes. If it's poor cloth stuffed with filler it will not last.
 
Dont be dazzled too much by the potential savings.
Sails are expensive, but critical to the operation of your boat.
Sails made of poor cloth or just cut too long or short will be a disappointment that you wont be able to rectify without spending more money than if you had gone local.
Having made a significant investment, you will be stuck with the results for a few years until you can justify to yourself another set of new sails.

Go local and you should be able to trust that the quality of cloth is as quoted, the sails will fit*, errors will be corrected, and if it all goes wrong you have lots of consumer law on your side.
Go imported ex Hong Kong and you could get good quality sails at a bargain price, but if its not the cloth as advertised or the cut is wrong or the sails get lost in transit or whatever you are basically up a creek with no paddle and no friends.
*My sailmaker came to my boat and did his own measurements. He was mortally embarrassed when one dimension on the jib was slightly wrong, but he owned his mistake, he fixed it promptly and it cost me nothing.

I know what i would do......
 
an ugly sail is a horrible thing to look at

this is made in the UK by Tabb in the UK but I can hardly look up

Sequence-02.Still021.jpg


I got Jeckells to make me a genoa

it gives me pleasure every time I look at it

and I have seen it being made and met the people who made it

hard to put a price on such a thing



the lady you can see in the film was working hard all day on it. As I was filming I was amazed at the power of her hands. I asked to to squeeze my hand - bloody nora! What a grip!
 
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NigelFortune said:
Hyde & Jeckells similar quotes....
Click to expand...

Hyde make their sails in the Philippines, so I wouldn't regard Hyde as a local sailmaker. For me they sit in a middle ground of UK distribution/measurement etc but outsourced manufacture. Doesn't mean the sails are any worse but what happens if the sail is cut wrong for instance.

Jeckells make their sails in the UK.

Interesting that the prices are the same, I assume similar cloth etc?
 
I've mentioned this many times before, before choosing a sail maker get a sample of their cloth and also get one for Hood sails. Then put a bright light behind the cloth and use a magnifyng glass, what you will see is the amount of fibre to glue. The more fibre there is the stronger the sail is and the longer the sail will last before stretching, you will also see Hood has the most fibre.
 
Using cheap sail cloth is a false economy - the cost of the cloth itself is a comparatively small percentage of the overall cost of the sail so (IMHO) it is well worthwhile spending a bit more to get a better cloth - doubling the cost of the cloth itself may only add 20% to the cost of the sail.

Of course that doesn't really answer the OPs question - you could get a specification for the cloth each is proposing to use and see if you can compare them (although that can be difficult)
 
I bought new sails last year. I live in France but went with a UK sailmaker. Nothing wrong with the sails but I had to do the measuring myself which was very complicated. Then if I had an issue I would have the problem of packing them up and sending them back for alteration etc. So In my opinion if you are able to get the sails ordered locally and with a measuring service done by a professional that's a good idea. With the cost involved you want to get it right. Sending sails back to HK you aren't happy with would be a big issue
Good luck
Mick
 
I would always try to buy locally for all sorts of reasons a number of which are nothing to do with the sails themselves. However I am in the fortunate position of being able to choose - I am not rich but the choice is available to me.

I recently had a main and genoa from a small local loft with a good reputation. I met the guy who was going to make the sails, and discussed them with him. A similar sort of boat to you, in the end I paid £1100 for a main in Contender Fibercon and £1145 for a genoa in Challenge Marblehead, these prices are comparable with UK postal lofts. You might well get a better price in HK, let us know how the figures pan out.

For the extra dosh you put money into the pocket of a local bloke, keep skills alive, contribute to UK ltd, help create a path to employment for local kids, save the planet and get a bespoke service. On the downside there is a least two local lofts I know that I would not trust to make to make a wankers hankie.

:) So shop smart.
 
KellysEye said:
I've mentioned this many times before, before choosing a sail maker get a sample of their cloth and also get one for Hood sails. Then put a bright light behind the cloth and use a magnifyng glass, what you will see is the amount of fibre to glue. The more fibre there is the stronger the sail is and the longer the sail will last before stretching, you will also see Hood has the most fibre.
Click to expand...

I got quotes for my new main from a handful of UK makers, including Kemp and Hood. I did not know at the time that there was a connection between these two, but for the exact same cloth and spec, Kemps were significantly cheaper. The only other difference was the person on the end of the phone and Rob Kemp made my decision easy.
Jeckels made my genoa. I am very pleased with it, but their first attempt produced a No2. This was replaced with absolutely no quibbles and fulsome apologies.
Two UK sailmakers that I have had excellent service from.
 
There is a missing element to this discussion. There is more to sail making than cloth brand name or double v. trebble stitching.

I wise local sailmaker can listen to the customer, ask questions and then make subtle tweaks to customize the sail to the needs of the customer. I sailed home from Poole last Tuesday with a new 110% high clew genoa made by Crusader, it is a perfect match for how I use my yacht.
 
Asi had good service from Kemps, one reason I went with them was that I was having a new boom made at the same time and Z Spars are just up the road so they were used to working together.
Also had a very good genoa from Quay sails.

Re Hood cloth, my impression was that all the sailcloth was actually made by big companies like DuPont, rather than by individual sailmakers? And in addition, surely Hood (and every other loft) offers sails made in whatever fabric you want, it would be crazy for them to only offer one option. So you can't say that X loft uses superior cloth to Y loft...
 
+1 for Kemp Sails, had 2 sets from them plus a couple of spinnakers. Rob Kemp very knowledgeable and helpful. Not the cheapest , but good value. Wouldn't hesitate to go back.
 
jonjo5 said:
There is a missing element to this discussion. There is more to sail making than cloth brand name or double v. trebble stitching.

I wise local sailmaker can listen to the customer, ask questions and then make subtle tweaks to customize the sail to the needs of the customer. I sailed home from Poole last Tuesday with a new 110% high clew genoa made by Crusader, it is a perfect match for how I use my yacht.
Click to expand...
I got the same good service from Crusader sails. I gave them the info, the type of use and some preferences and they gave me a perfect sail which balances the boat beautifully.
 
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