Considered Normal size of a Cruising Genoa?

[xeitosaphil]

I will be requiring a new Roller Reefing Genoa to be made for this season and was wondering what size to have made?

What would be considered to be the norm for a Cruising boat ? 135%, 150% ( especially with a Baby Stay )

While I don’t race, I would like the boat to have more than just a reasonable performance?
My biggest concern is, she has a Baby Stay so the available space to go about, with acres of sail may prove testing? ( possibly another 4'-0" on the foot, would this make a lot of difference? )

The R/R Genoa sail which came with the boat is between 120% - 125% and was made by a Chinese sail maker, which is now falling apart due to UV degrading of the stitching!! My only option is to have another made, so I have the chance to increase the size, and the difference in price is negligible
The Main is ok at present? But apparently was made of lighter material than would normally be expected for a boat of this size, according to the sail maker I have had a quote from.
So something I will need to look into in the not too distant future, when funds allow.

Just something’s to be aware of, for prospective Chinese sail purchasers!!

Sail maker Quoted for Contender Fibrecon 6.38oz any views?

The boat by the way is a Hurley 30/90

 

[rob2]

A lot of boats designed around that era were originally specified with a 150% genoa for light airs, but have found that such a sail is not really suitable as a roller. This is not so much a question of fouling the babystay, it just stretches the compromise situatin too far. The sail needs to be heavier than a hank on sail or else it will be too light when reefed and anyway will not have a good shape when rolled suitable for stronger winds. As a result, it has become customary to have the roller sail the size of a No2 genoa, perhaps 120-130%, as a better all round sail and fly a separate ghoster in really light airs. It all adds up though doesn't it?

Incidentally, when I used to sail on a T24 with a babystay, we put a length of round plastic conduit on the babystay, which helped the sheets roll around it. We usually only got the sheets snagged on the foredeck cleats after that. People do recommend crossing the sheets over and whipping them together so that they present a smooth line to the babystay when tacking.

Rob.

 

[Neil_Y]

I understood sail area was decided by the design of the boat and keeping the centre of effort such that upwind full main is balanced against the largest genoa. To keep the boat balanced as the wind strength changes you de power and then reduce area. Something like...No1 would be suitable for powered up full main, as you get to a flattened de powered full main then maybe No2 Gen, and then first reef No3.

If you go over the size needed to balance the full main I would think you might see some lee helm with the sails set correctly when sailing upwind. So upwind you may not see any pay back in performance with a larger genoa, however when sailing off the wind then sail area = speed. I guess a fully rolled out genoa could just be a reaching sail.

I would first look at what the boat and mast were designed for, that will give you max size.

Cruising upwind I tend to go for a high cut No2 and flat main keeping everything easy with good visibility.

 

[LadyInBed]

To my mind the determining factor is how many turns you can get on the furling line. Putting on a 150% if you can only role away 130% would be silly

 

[Bosun Higgs]

A lot of boats designed around that era were originally specified with a 150% genoa for light airs, but have found that such a sail is not really suitable as a roller. This is not so much a question of fouling the babystay, it just stretches the compromise situatin too far. The sail needs to be heavier than a hank on sail or else it will be too light when reefed and anyway will not have a good shape when rolled suitable for stronger winds. As a result, it has become customary to have the roller sail the size of a No2 genoa, perhaps 120-130%, as a better all round sail and fly a separate ghoster in really light airs. It all adds up though doesn't it? .

Good advice here. My boat has a 140% genoa which does reef reasonably well but thats only thanks to a foam luff and to its being a laminate sail. If I were to replace the sail I would probably go for a non laminate 105/110% and put the money saved towards some sort of gennaker or cruising chute.

 

[Spuddy]

I got a new genoa from Jekells a couple of years ago. Since they know better than me I followed their advice and ordered a 130%. I asked about foam luffs but they said don't bother.

 

[ditchcrawler]

I changed from a 150% genny to a 130% triradial laminate sail.Much better overall and don't have to reef so often.Have foam luff so it is a reasonable shape when reefed.Masthead rig moody 31 which has a babystay,easier to tack than the bigger sail.I also use a rope shackle with a soft eye in the end of each genoa sheet to attach to the clew so no snagging anymore when tacking.

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

I got a new genoa from Jekells a couple of years ago. Since they know better than me I followed their advice and ordered a 130%. I asked about foam luffs but they said don't bother.

+1 for Jeckells, seems like being in business for 180 years might make them fairly well qualified !!

 

[Plevier]

My First 29 - masthead with babystay - originally had a 150% - good under handicap rules at the time.
When I replaced, on Hyde's advice I went for 130%. Much easier to handle and winch in! Still good performance.
My present boat (90% fractional) is limited to 115% because it sheets inboard of the shrouds. It loses out badly off wind.
I think about 130% is fine. In contradiction to some other posters I would definitely go for foam luff. I suspect in present conditions you'll get it thrown in free or very discounted if you try.
Fibrecon (what a name!) is I believe the next one up from Supercruise (or the successor to Supercruise), should be good.

 

[Richard Solomon]

Go even smaller?

I'm not familiar with your boat, so my experience might not apply. I sail a moderate displacement 40' cruiser and we have lots of light air days. Boat came with a 130 RF genoa which I recently replaced with a 115, based on recommendations from folks with similar boats. Everything improved: it sails higher and faster on all points of sail (i.e., no loss of speed downwind); it tacks easily through the slot (I also have a baby stay for the staysail), and, with foam luffs, it keeps its shape good enough when furled. Finally, much better visibility than with my previous deck sweeper. My local sailmaker ordered it from Rolley Tasker; made in Thailand. We used Bainbridge's Marblehead dacron.
I couldn't be happier.
Richard

 

[bedouin]

In many ways a 150% roller reefing Genoa is a pretty useless sail. If it is made of strong enough fabric to be useful partly furled it will be far too heavy to set well in the light winds where you need the 150%.

Having tried a range of sizes from 150% down I now use a 120% - a much more flexible sail

 

[JimC]

My last boat was masthead rigged with a big overlapping genoa which I measured and found to be 140%. The boat went better with the overlap reduced by rolling in a few turns on the furler. I accordingly had a new genoa made to the dimensions of the partly-rolled original, which made it about 120%. The boat definitely sailed better, for one thing there was no tendency to backwind the mainsail when sheeting the genoa in when on the wind. In fairness the boat was fairly narrow sterned so the sheeting base narrowed when when the genoa cars were at the rear of their tracks with the big sail.

 

[LittleSister]

I got a new genoa from Jekells a couple of years ago..... I asked about foam luffs but they said don't bother.

The reverse of what they advised me when I enquired about one a couple of months ago!

 

[Plevier]

We used Bainbridge's Marblehead dacron.

Richard

No you didn't!
Marblehead is made by Challenge not Bainbridge.

 

[xeitosaphil]

Cruising genoa Size / Weight of Sail Cloth ?

Just like to say thank you to all who contributed to this post .

I did think that my original R/R Genoa at 120%-125% was a little small, but having read everybody's posts it doesn't seem out of the way, and is easily managed, reefs well with a padded Luff, and stows easily.
I think I will have the new one made at 130% which will only add about 12" to the foot but I will increase the leech also by about 12", this will make the whole sail just a little bit bigger than the one a present, without being unmanageable.
Going to explore the possibility of a rope shackle with a soft eye, sounds a good idea, I already have purpose made Baby Stay roller plastic section to aid going about, which is also a good idea and works well, when the bowlines don’t get snagged?

The only other thing to sort out is the best weight of Sail Cloth to use?

It has been suggested that Fibrecon 6.38oz Polyester Dacron would be suitable as a combined light wind / to medium heavy weather sail cloth weight for a R/R Genoa, but others may have different ideas of which weight suits best? ( I'm Not Long Distance Ocean sailing, more Coastal, some Cross Channel)

 

[johnphilip]

Check the sheeting

Before going ahead with any increase in size of your genny do make sure you genoa car tracks come far enough aft for the new sail. Last year I replaced a 130% sail with the same size but Kemps, measuring a sister boat shortened the foot by 6" to make for greater adjustment. I had forgotten that under full sail I had had the cars right at the back of the track when the old sail was fully deployed.

 

[dt4134]

Another vote for a smaller sail.

Large gennys are for racing but to use them in zephyrs you need them properly shaped for light airs and light enough that a gentle puff will blow them into a usable shape. Not the sort of sail you'd use in moderate or strong winds, so not the sort of sail you'd put in a furler.

Better to get a decent cruising headsail that will give you good enough pointing ability, enough speed in moderate winds and will hold enough shape in stronger winds when part furled. It'll be easier to tack too.

And unless you really enjoy chasing zephyrs you can turn the engine on in light airs.