comparing cars and boats

[tcm]

This has been done a few times here, and in the boatie press too. A sunseeker's like a BMW/porsche/ferrari , a Princess is like a merc/bmw, a Broom is lieek a rover/bentley...and so on. I made reference to cars in an earlier posting (sunseeker) and compared their model-changing antics, and new poster Mustard picked me up on it, hence the post.

IMHO comparisons with modern cars are quite wrong. I have never been in any Merc (or other car made in the last ten years) which broke throttle cables, needed £££sevicing, had crummy carpet and had only a 1-year warranty. Indeed, plenty of cars have remote control locking, parking sensors, electric seat warmers, one-touch wash-wipe.... and almost all of them work perfectly all the time. And, without exception, the more expensive cars can now travel at speeds which I might dare attain only once in a blue moon, or more likely, never.

So, car-wise, at current rates of performance and reliabilty, I would compare Sunseeker with a Delarge, Fairline with a De Dion Bouton and Sealine's new-fangledness with a Stanley Steamer. All IMHO, of course. Any other suggestions?

 

[ari]

I'd suggest that when it is possible to sell boats in the same quantity as cars you might start to see similar levels of reliability.

How much do you suppose Mercedes spent of research and development for the new C Class, how much did they invest in the factory to build it? More than Sunseeker earned gross out of their entire run of Predator 60's I'd imagine, before they drew a single line of the design or switched a light on in the factory!

Pick a car manufacturer like TVR, small company making products for enthusiasts and the comparison makes more sense. Oh but wait, aren't they notoriously unreliable, leak, break down a lot...?? Bet your average TVR owner wishes his car was as reliable and well put together as a Sunseeker!!

Ari.

 

[petem]

LOTUS

'L'ots 'O'f 'T'rouble 'U'sually 'S'erious.

 

[ari]

Re: LOTUS

Exactly!

:-D

Ari.

 

[ToMo]

I suppose if I ask what a Cat would be compared to, I'd be asking for trouble?

TôMö

 

[Col]

Pre unit Triumph, with Watsonian sidecar ????

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/colspics> Cols Picture Album</A>

 

[burgundyben]

E type.

My boat compares to an e-type.

Well, I like to think so anyway.



For sale, 1970 Triumph Spitfire, 1947 Lambretta, 1922 Great grandmother, PM for details.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: E type.

I hope your boat is not as tempremental as my "E" type was, or built by british leyland!! as my V12 was! More like the 3.8, all go and no brakes!!

 

[Geoffs]

Agree, can't really compare boats with road vehicles, I've tried.

PWC - Motor bike
20 -30ft sports boat - family car.
Large twin diesel cruiser - HGV

Bit like the comparison Bill Gates supoosed to have made with car industry.

'If the Automotive industry had advanced like computers, we'd have cars that would do 1,000mpg and cost $50'

To which the motor industry supposed to have replied.

'If this had happened we have cars that crashed 3 times a day for no reason, and a new one would be needed every time new lines were painted on the road!'

I guess, if cars were like boats, nearly everyone would have a Volvo engine, and spend 6 out of 7 days being fixed.

Old Chinese proverb 'Man who sail boat into rice field, soon get into paddy'

 

[mustard]

What I really wanted to ascertain is more in terms of reliability and quality - not style and class - subjective things anyway. I mean, I had a Merc that was a total disaster quality-wise despite its reputation and cost (50 different faults incl engine blown, gearbox, so beware tcm) - while my present BMW has been a model of reliability and a total pleasure to drive. So wanted to buy a boat that, based on feedback from you knowledgeable and erudite lot that might give me some security, but get the feeling they are all sus in some way, so I give up and will take pot-luck on the best judgement I can make. A Princess?

But then I've just realised that whole question is a total crock simply because the things rely on vo**o engines! No experience there.....

 

[ari]

OK, my twopennethworth, IMHO etc etc etc.

Sunseeker - Porsche. Flash looks, strong on performance, but less practical and premium price.

Princess/Fairline - BMW/Mercedes. Quality product, classic styling, practical, meant to be used, slight premium but considered worth it by those who know. Both appealing to the same target audience.

Sealine - Vauxhall. Bit lower down the range. Does the job OK and some people think they are as good as Princess etc, but Vauxhall Omega driver rate their cars as BMW 5 Series alternatives, BMW owners don't rate Vauxhalls as credible alternatives. Need to P/X into another new one to get good residuals.

Windy - Saab. Good boat but offbeat. The alternative choice.

Broom - Tricky. I'd say Rover, but better quality. Rover if they were still owned by BMW, hows that?

That should ruffle a few feathers!!!

;-)

 

[tcm]

Re: which boat - after sales is the thing

Dunno where you plan to take your boat, mustard, but i'd buy from a supplier nearby. Or indeed, right there, in the same marina.

Of coursem it is not the case that ALL volvo engines blow up I know loads of people who had no problems. Likewise, most mercs don't blow up. Some people hate caterpillars, for example, again based on personal experience.

I'd rate princess as better than fairline in terms of detailing for a sea boat - they are near the water, and it shows that many of their workforce are "boaty". Azimut are rated well, though aftersales in the UK is not as widespread as in the med.

The main issue is the attitude of the salesperson. We bought a new boat, and the anchor failed. the control unit failed, and we were nailed to the seabed on a saturday night, far too heavy to hand-pull back up. Safe, but not sorted. The salesman came by boat with a crew to haul it back up, leaving at 10pm all sorted. Occassionally, you may need this. A reasonable boat with decent backup could be better than a so-called "ace" boat with lousy backup.

 

[ccscott49]

Due to Brooms quality of build but idiosyncratic styling, I would say Bentley or lower down the scale Jaguar.

 

[mustard]

Re: which boat - after sales is the thing

Thats pretty much sorted it - I'm near Plymouth so the Princess is likely. But then, my local Merc dealer is a total load of c**p. I guess Princess will be keen to protect a local reputation...

But thanks Guys, useful imput, and these are serious decisions.....until the fun starts.

 

[tcm]

Re: which boat - after sales is the thing

Proximity to the manufacturer is okay - but the main thing is being near to someone who will Make Something Happen. This does not have to be the manufacturer, and it usually isn't.

I would wander around the pontoons of the marina that you plan to use, and strike up conversations with owners of similar boats. The guys you are really interested in are those who have had problems with the boat and whose problems were then sorted . It's no recommendation if they've had "no problems" - it usually means that the owner isn't very demanding cos ALL boats have problems, even if they are only very minor problems. Make it clear that you are looking for a recommendation of the backup, attitude, and speed of response from the sales outlet (whoever it was), not whether their boat is reliable or not, nor whether their boat is what they wanted.

Of course, anyone reasonable would think that a dealer/manufacturer would want to protect a local reputation.

But of course the crap dealers aren't crap by bad luck - they're crap from their own efforts. Crap dealers hire lousy staff who have even lower standards, which of course are low in the first place, otherwise they wouldn't have hired idiots, or at least they would have fired them by now. As a result, the crap dealers do not make much money, hence they have rarely if ever had the experience of buying aspriationally expensive things themselves and being let down, or, if they have, they're used to crap service as being normal, since of course their standards remain low. Crap dealers imagine that anyone with enough money to buy an expensive item will be content with low standards of expensive things, as though a broken expensive thing (like a boat) is alsways somehow superior to a fully-functioning cheaper thing (like a biro) which of course it isn't. Crap dealers often feel the need to "put people straight" and are sure that having a broken boat is better than having no boat at all plus a load of customers giving them a good kicking, which is what they have themselves.

 

[oldgit]

Re: which boat - after sales is the thing

Blame for design and manufacture of the boat hull can be laid at the door of the respective companies but as most of them use exactly the same power units,running gear and electronics the differences are perhaps quite minor and it is all down to your personal preferences.

O my Gawd its still going ahead......

 

[petem]

An opportunity praps?

Why don't manufacturers or dealers offer a two or even a three year warranty?

In the old days before you got a 3 year warranty on a car you could usually get anything serious fixed on a good will basis. Of course, under the sale of goods act they had an obligation to fix it because it wouldn't have been of fit for purpose.

Same goes for boats. If something serious breaks when it's 18 months old then kick up a fuss and demand it be fixed or you'll be speaking to your solicitor / trading standards. Usualy they'll oblige.

Alternatively, like I suggest, they could offer a two year warranty for major components.

 

[Myrtonos]

I'm told that comparing cars and boats is a false premise. Stopping takes longer and is harder to learn, because there is no didcated barking system. Astern thrust is used for both braking and reversing, steering is less intuative because boats can slide through turns, depending on hull design, enivroment is more adverse, there are no (painted) markings on the water and there is flow, wake and hyrodynamics, none of which exist on the road, the only easy part is that there are no gradients. There are generally no speed limits on lakes, seas and wide rivers. A car exeprincing yaw at an angle to the direction of travel is skidding, a any list either way it would be entering roll. Whereas a boat surfing down a wake could be on considerable list and yaw without losing control. If you are boating on a river, this pulls on the narrow field of view you need out of the normal range.
There are no traffic lights on the water, and giving way is different, as on lakes, seas and even rivers confuences there is no equivelant of the distiction between the major and minor road, and priority rules may vary according to what type of vessel one is encountering.
The general rule (with a number of execetions) is that powered vessels give way to sailing vessels approaching from the port and head on, and any vessel (powered or sailing) approaching from the starboard, and pass other powered vessels port-to-port. Any overtaking vessel is to give way to the vessel ahead. Another difference is that the give way vessel typically swerves to avoid the stand on vessel, while land vehicles just slow down or stop. Windward sailng vessels give way to leeward, leeward sailng vessels with starboard tack have almost absolute right of way including over sailing vessels with port tack.
This complex priority system makes collisions easier to avoid but places more complex demands as the skipper not only has to check for other vessels but needs to distinguish between different types clearly.
Boat crashes are much more dangerous as they can result in a loss of buoyency and boats don't have seat-belts, even if a crash does not result in injuries, it can still leave the occpuants stranded as they, being terrestrial beings, cannot just get out and walk away, like with a broken down car.