Company owned boats

[russ]

So I’m potentially going buy this boat. Not saying where or what at the moment.
The owner has it down as being in his company’s ownership. Is there anything different from buying privately from the owner or via his company? Can there be outstanding finance on a company boat and how do I find this out.
If I were to use the RYA boat purchase agreement forms does signing this cover me from any encumbrances?

I assume as he’s not a dealer therefore wouldn’t be any warranty via the company?

 

[rafiki_]

I think this is more risky than a direct purchase form a clear owner. Others on here will know better than me. How easy is it to find out what outstanding if any liens are there? Who are you buying from? Does this person have any rights to sell? Could be a rocky path.

 

[petem]

Is the boat on the Part 1 Register?

 

[artisan]

VAT may have been claimed in the purchase through a business - you may have to pay the VAT!

 

[Whitelighter]

VAT may have been claimed in the purchase through a business - you may have to pay the VAT!

That can also be true when buying from an individual.

 

[jrudge]

If you charge an asset owned by a company it should be registered at Companies House.

If on part 1 then the finance will also be registered against it on the register.

The reason I suspect he owned it via a company are either / or / both

- if he bought it new he reclaimed the VAT. In this case he must add vat when he sells it and you will get a VAT receipt from his company

- so that the expenses can be written off via the business. Not a winning strategy but this depends if the inspector calls or not and of course Mose of the time he does not. This is nothing to do with you.

If he bought the boat second hand VAT paid then there is no vat to be paid on its sale UNLESS he makes a profit on it, in which case he must charge VAT on the profit element. Depending when the boat was bought a profit is indeed possible.

So your concern is regarding the VAT and the boats VAT status when he bought it and if he has or has not made a profit on it.

 

[Momac]

The previous owner of my first boat was a company.
I bought the boat via Burton Waters as brokers for the vendor . There were no issues, nor was there any warranty.

 

[russ]

The boat had the VAT paid by the first owner when new. I have seen the invoice and Bill of Sale. He’s said the boat is part 1 registered but I’m unsure if it’s transferred into his name as it was taken as a P/x and therefore just selling it on at below the price he allowed for it on the deal. So no profit I guess. He’s also putting money into it for repairs before sale.

 

[petem]

The boat had the VAT paid by the first owner when new. I have seen the invoice and Bill of Sale. He’s said the boat is part 1 registered but I’m unsure if it’s transferred into his name as it was taken as a P/x and therefore just selling it on at below the price he allowed for it on the deal. So no profit I guess. He’s also putting money into it for repairs before sale.

The Part 1 shows who the owner is and also any registered charges against the boat.

I think I would be wary of buying a boat that is Part 1 registered to someone other than the seller (even if it was a part exchange job). Note that the seller can be changed on a Part 1 simply by scanning and emailing the appropriate Bills of Sale to the MCA.

 

[jrudge]

I agree with Pete.

Part 1 is a register of Title and as such the person on the certificate owns it.

There maybe convention as to how dealers take these into stock, but you should see a bill of sale from the vendor to the current company owner and then you will get the some from them to you.

Someone else may know if a dealer would register the transfer on Part 1 or not. I used to run the divisor that included Lombard marine. I simply cant recall if we registered our interest at the registry or just held all the documents for stocking plans.

 

[stelican]

I believe I am correct in saying all new boats within the EEC with a few exceptions must be invoiced including VAT apart from a few places such as The Channel Isles . But if bought new by a VAT registered company the Vat can be reclaimed.
So you would need to know that the first owner did not reclaim the VAT. If so that liability could exist.

 

[superheat6k]

So ultimately you as the buyer you should be (must be !) satisfied as to clear title, and free of encumbrances e.g. a VAT bill. Make showing this to your satisfaction the vendor's / broker's problem.

If you are a serious buyer they will do whatever is needed. But if they seem reluctant to accept this responsibility - RUN AWAY.

 

[russ]

Would I be better off employing a broker to handle the whole deal at a set fee? Would I have any protection doing so?
Which trust worthy brokers would except doing such a service?

 

[superheat6k]

Would I be better off employing a broker to handle the whole deal at a set fee? Would I have any protection doing so?
Which trust worthy brokers would except doing such a service?

Whyboats at Bursledon offered me a transaction only service when they were selling my Turbo 36, had I introduced the buyer. About £1,000 + vat I recall. However, they found the buyer so their normal fee applied.

Don't see why they wouldn't do the same for a purchaser, but you would have to ask them for their view of the due diligence, I doubt they would take on liability for a sale turning out badly, but should be better at helping you through the process.

 

[petem]

Would I be better off employing a broker to handle the whole deal at a set fee? Would I have any protection doing so?
Which trust worthy brokers would except doing such a service?

Ward & McKenzie can handle this for you Russ (http://www.ward-mckenzie.co.uk/). They can also hold your deposit if the seller agrees and ensure that you get your money back if the boat surveys badly. Will probably charge you £1k.

 

[stelican]

Would I be better off employing a broker to handle the whole deal at a set fee? Would I have any protection doing so?
Which trust worthy brokers would except doing such a service?

I got the impression from your post 8 that you were buying from a dealer who had taken as as p/x so should you not be getting the usual guarantees to title and warranty from him?

 

[russ]

Ward & McKenzie can handle this for you Russ (http://www.ward-mckenzie.co.uk/). They can also hold your deposit if the seller agrees and ensure that you get your money back if the boat surveys badly. Will probably charge you £1k.

Thanks Pete.
Email sent.

Vendor has offered to use his own separate sales company set up a while ago with a client holding account. He has said he is more than happy for me to use a broker of my choice at my cost.

 

[jrudge]

Thanks Pete.
Email sent.

Vendor has offered to use his own separate sales company set up a while ago with a client holding account. He has said he is more than happy for me to use a broker of my choice at my cost.

No idea what account etc but the odds of if offering you protection are close to zero

 

[stelican]

Thanks Pete.
Email sent.

Vendor has offered to use his own separate sales company set up a while ago with a client holding account. He has said he is more than happy for me to use a broker of my choice at my cost.

I have seen client accounts set up by companies that only require one signature to withdraw funds, Guess who's signature.

 

[Seastoke]

Russ , I am trying to work out, a guy is willing to sell a boat less than what he allowed in part ex , then spend money on it. Does not add up