compact genset/ aircon system

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meracus

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hello chaps

im thinking of installaing a aircon/ genset for my fiart 40 . i dont want to complicate matters and all i want to achieve is cold air into the salon and leave the doors open into the main cabin
i have seen some dometic 6000btu that look well compact , is that enough ?
on the generator side , whats out there to fit my specs ?
anybody knows a reliable firm ( one that at least answer emails ) in mallorca ?
is there anything i should watch out for
many thanks
 
I don't know what internal volume you're trying to cool, but on my Fairline Targa 40 I use a Dometic 16000 BTU all-in-one to cool the saloon and front cabin. 6000 BTU does sound a bit underpowered unless your cabin volume is really small. For power, I have an Onan 4kw mdkbh generator.
 
thanks jimmy, wow that much . it must be something a boat requires as ive just installed an fujitsu aircon in a 500sq living room with 8000btu
and its absolutely freezing if you wanted it to be .. i thought the puny sizes of a boat ( no sliding glass doors in direct sunlight ) with require about the same ( 6000 is the smallest ive seen )
regards
andre
 
Pit falls from traditional domtec stuff fitted under saloon berths or you own berth are noise and power consumption.
Power consumption comes in two flavours
1- need for a bigger ,heavier , less space efficient and more expensive geny .
2- when touring / visiting in the high season in a busy ( and expensive?) marina —- tripling the inadequate shore power - cos your A/C is too power hungry

There folks have solved those two issues
Super silent - you can,t hear it running therefore zilch potential sleep disturbance
V low power drain / consumption and v low (2A) start up joint .
This means you can add other AC stuff to your boat like degas - fit an induction hob etc in the future .

Sunseeker .fr put me on to them - a lot of retro fitting is going on for the reasons ^^^^
Mines a 42 000 BTU for a Itama 42/48 —- your 6000 seems inadequate tbo
I went for a central chiller ( under an aft cabin bunk - you can,t hear it running ! ) and 3 air handlers 1 in each space .
Geny is an exsisting Masse 3.5 , we de gassed the boat too .
Masse little genys are air cooled - they have a Yanmar aircooled Engine - bomb proof engineering .
There is a small sea water intercooler to cool the air in the box that’s all - simple engineering .

Click around this site for more info

http://www.frigomar.com/images/PDF/FRIGOMAR_chiller-inverter-DC_eng.pdf

We had conventional Marine - air / Domtec self contained and a water cooled ( small ) geny in my Sunseeker —-
Never -again in a small boat in high Med summer .Not quiet enough and far too high comsumption -unless you have a bigger geny - chicken n egg situation — but you run out of space and add kg s in a small boat blunting performance.
 
thanks portofino
so any mase aircooled up to 4k lets say would do the trick ? are there any changes to to shorepower / electrical install that needs doing etc ? anything else desirable on the electrical side , time for gadgets !!
 
meracus said:
hello chaps

im thinking of installaing a aircon/ genset for my fiart 40 . i dont want to complicate matters and all i want to achieve is cold air into the salon and leave the doors open into the main cabin
i have seen some dometic 6000btu that look well compact , is that enough ?
on the generator side , whats out there to fit my specs ?
anybody knows a reliable firm ( one that at least answer emails ) in mallorca ?
is there anything i should watch out for
many thanks
Click to expand...

Remember boats have almost no insulating properties and in the med sun the cabin will easily too 40 degrees so you are trying to shift a lot of heat.

Factory fit on my t40 was 6000 for the fwd Cabin and I think either 12 or 15k for the saloon and rear cabin.

If you install 6k of cooling it won’t in my experience do much.

Also the air will only flow from cabin to cabin if fanned there
 
Keith Pinder, an English guy, was running Baleair until recently. He should be able to help or introduce you to the guys now running his business. Please say Trevor at ThermaCom referred you to him.

info@baleair,com
 
A 4 Geny set up + induction hob + what ever charger ( mines an 80 amp H ) only works with Frigomar AC gear.
Conventional AC requires more power - hence a bigger geny @ anchor unless you turn other stuff off - but if your geny s runnig best to recharge batts too @ anchor as well
There's no cheap solution to comfort afloat
 
so portofino .... you are happy with this setup then ? pm me details /specifics ... but i think you mean 3.2 gen set and 607 frigomar ?
 
meracus said:
thanks portofino
........are there any changes to to shorepower / electrical install that needs doing etc ? anything else desirable on the electrical side , time for gadgets !!
Click to expand...

you could add a Victron Quattro 3Kw or 5Kw
does all the automatic switching between shore and genny power,
intelligent charging of the batts,
and gives you pemanently 230V availability on the boat, with build in security for not discharging the batts too deep.
and many more features for onboard electrics...

add a Color Control display, for monitoring all the data
and a BMV Battery monitor, for accurately measure battery charge status
and a DMC remote controll for setting max shore amps, and switching the system On/off/charge only
 
Portofino said:
Pit falls from traditional domtec stuff fitted under saloon berths or you own berth are noise and power consumption.
Power consumption comes in two flavours
1- need for a bigger ,heavier , less space efficient and more expensive geny .
2- when touring / visiting in the high season in a busy ( and expensive?) marina —- tripling the inadequate shore power - cos your A/C is too power hungry

There folks have solved those two issues
Super silent - you can,t hear it running therefore zilch potential sleep disturbance
V low power drain / consumption and v low (2A) start up joint .
This means you can add other AC stuff to your boat like degas - fit an induction hob etc in the future .

Sunseeker .fr put me on to them - a lot of retro fitting is going on for the reasons ^^^^
Mines a 42 000 BTU for a Itama 42/48 —- your 6000 seems inadequate tbo
I went for a central chiller ( under an aft cabin bunk - you can,t hear it running ! ) and 3 air handlers 1 in each space .
Geny is an exsisting Masse 3.5 , we de gassed the boat too .
Masse little genys are air cooled - they have a Yanmar aircooled Engine - bomb proof engineering .
There is a small sea water intercooler to cool the air in the box that’s all - simple engineering .

Click around this site for more info

http://www.frigomar.com/images/PDF/FRIGOMAR_chiller-inverter-DC_eng.pdf

We had conventional Marine - air / Domtec self contained and a water cooled ( small ) geny in my Sunseeker —-
Never -again in a small boat in high Med summer .Not quiet enough and far too high comsumption -unless you have a bigger geny - chicken n egg situation — but you run out of space and add kg s in a small boat blunting performance.
Click to expand...

The specs of that Mase 3.5 are impressive at less than 100kg and 54dba at 7 mtr. I notice its a 3000 rev air cooled unit: how noisy is it at full load?
 
The geny rpm seems constant it does not alter .Having said that the tone deepens when it’s loaded more ,deeper .
Mase do a few “ IS “ intercooler system these days .Initially I thought it was just small stuff ,but a look @ there website reveals they air cool larger too .
It’s in an soundproofed ER in a sound box .
The sound box is open on the underside to allow air the move .
In my install it’s on a V shape under it the hull as it’s mounted in the midline .
Generally mounting on a flat surface ( applies to all genys ) is best avoided due to resonance issues - sound bouncing straight back @ it = not good .
It’s quiet enough ,but on a 14 M open boat no hard top any sound that gets out dissipates easy.

Price wise the geny is 16 y old ,came with the boat .As new today I suspect all sub 5 Kva tiny genys are much as a muchness .
But as said simple aircoled Yanmar ( paddy pump zillions in Asia ) diesel .Looks like with the fins on the cylinder head like a 70 ,s BMW motorbike. There an IS about the size of an iPad ,looks like a small car radiator,it is infact ,but does the opposite,
A fan blows cooled by the sea water air to the fins in the engine .
Engine has a small PTO which is connected to a ubiquitous Johnson water pump ( every swindlers keeps Johnson spares )
This pumps seawater through The IS only .Simples !
Aircon
Got three quote in 2014
For self contained Domtec stuff fitted ( 3 compartment s ) € 9-12 K inclusive - turn key .
Ok e bay does a unit @ 1 K or what ever , but you have to retro fit it 3 x and connect it all up - fit ancillary s like pumps , cut / seal holes in your boat etc —- Nah from a DIY .
The Frigomar central chiller ( low start and low running amps to fit my geny ) with 3 separate air handlers was fitted €18 K
Yup the biggest Q .
How it all came about was I specifically asked for the quietist system ,not the cheapest and the two local yards just - “ went on autopilot “ as the guy came round to measure / specced .Did not listen .
So I called in to the local Sunseeker office ( still on good terms - they did the brokerage sale and sold mine in 3 weeks eek ! ) to shoot the breeze re air con .
They put me in touch with there guy they use a boat electrician - He worked out the geny output etc and load etc
Listened to what I wanted re quietness .Hes Italian based in the SoF - nice guy .Note not Fr .
Rest is history .

He did a whole boat electronic survey too .Job took two guys about 4/5 days with 2 coincided with its annual on the hard .( hull fittings ) .The water exist is at the stern so s not to annoy neighbours in a marina .
Later he fitted a nice marine induction hob and up specced ( really updated ) my charger from a 2001 40ah antique - to a modern all singing / dancing Dolphin 80ah unit .Each one of those was€1k each .
 
Just one more thing re the Frigomar D.C. brushless motor AC @ 42000 BTU
I did some home calcs using internet BTU formulas and arrived @ from memory about 27 000 btu for the 3 living spaces .Varoius sites same answer .

So with a 42 K unit it’s cools v quick - obviously, but the main point is this ,over conventional ac powered fridge motors found in trad stuff like Domtech , when it’s cool enough or near cool being D.C. the motor just slows down it’s does not switch off like conventional,then wait until a sensor detects a rise and switches back on .
In other words we do not get the multiple switch on / off like a ac fridge motor - with the resultant surges / spikes in current draw.

Last summer we were on the visitors pontoon in Porquerolles in typical 15M berth - Packed mid August you can picture the scene - every restaurant heaving .

Both neighbours A/c kept tripping out —- ours did not cos the D.C. motor never really stopped so never had to restart - and drew a tiny amperage on the limeted Seemingly struggling high season shore power .We had a nice cool sleep :cool:

You will be 9issed off forking out for a high season marina berth and not being able to run the air con — I would have thought !
 
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