Commercial endorsement renewal.

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slipknot

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I am so pissed off........

Just going through the renewal process for my commercial endorsement

Doctor wants to charge me £111.50 for medical examination and to complete medical form

Then theres the renewal fee to RYA

Instructors insurance

Re assesment fees

The medical exam fee is the last straw. I thought it was the marina operators and swindlerys that were pricing me out of sailing. Now everyone else seems to be jumping on the bandwagon too.
 
Mines due for renewal as well, so I'm just adding up all the bits I need.

I did find the local GP would do a medical if it was "required for work" at a much lower rate, it was £12.00 in 2000.

I was hoping it would be similar this time, good luck over 100 seems way too much
 
It's a killer ain't it?

I have to provide a medical cert on both my DTI Boatmasters lic and YM offshore ticket. Until last time there was a 1 year gap between them so last time I revailidated my YM 1 year early as MCA and RYA will accept one medical form.

BUT it still cost me £120 for 5 mins of the docs time. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
I used to get similarly stung by my GP for a diving medical and getting the PADI form filled out. Once you get old and decrepit (over 50) its needed annually.
Then I found I could get the same job done abroad (Malta) for a couple of quid just by joining the queue at the local surgery.
 
It all mounts up! And people wonder why tuition costs go up!! As you say the insurance costs last year went up dramitically. My medical for the commercial endorsment was £75 two years ago. I also run VHF courses and an outlay of £300 plus is required now on a set of simulators. I think it's a good idea to make it madatory to use real radios rather than the computer simulators, but even so, it all has to be paid for.
 
Ask around. The receptionist in our surgery told me which private doctor to go to, cost me £25 for a thorough medical. Try asking local HGV drivers they need medicals as well.
 
Re: Commercial endorsements invalid - MCA Medical requirements.

Checked Medical 'forms' out with MCA.
They send out form ML5, which is the same as the RYA form required for Commercial Endorsement.
However, MCA Examiner insisted upon ENG 1 & stated that ML5 was invalid for Boatmaster Grade 1 & also for Commercial Endorsements.
ENG 1 is for 'seafarers' - ie for operating 60+ miles offshore.
RYA YM Offshore is valid for up to 150 miles offshore (or safe haven). Therefore, technically, anyone with a current YM Commercial Endorsement, operating over 60 miles (Coastal Skipper limit), is probably contravening the MCA rules on manning.
 
Re: Commercial endorsements invalid - MCA Medical requirements.

Alan
Sorry you lost me!
I re-validated in 2004 and sent ML5 (with Lic) off to both MCA & RYA. Both were re-validated until 2009.
BTW I was a little bit piddled because I sent the RYA my nice leather look Licence and got back a single bit of paper with a plastic cover /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
My BM Lic is grade 3 not 1 so I'm restricted to 60nm from Ramsgate.
Peter.
 
Re: Commercial endorsements invalid - MCA Medical requirements.

Am I correct in thinking that you can only go up to 150nm from a safe haven if you have a suitably qualified crew, ie. somebody with at least coastal kipper. Otherwise Yachtmonster Offshore is only valid up to 60nm from a safe haven.
 
Re: Commercial endorsements invalid - MCA Medical requirements.

"Which certificate do I need"
Cat O - Worldwide -YM Ocean(Skipper)+YM Offshore(mate)
Cat 1 - up to 150M -YM Offshore (skipper) + Coastal (mate)
Cat 2 - up to 60M - YM Offshore (skipper) + Experienced person (mate)
Cat 3&4 - up to 20M - Coastal Skipper or Advanced PB

Wonder how many British flagged charter yachts doing the ARC, satisfy these requirements? If not, does this invalidate any insurance?

Ref ML5/ENG1, ML5 is for up to 60M offshore ("seafarers") & I have been told by MCA (check with their qualifications section/medicals) that 60M + requires an ENG1 (this is done only thru a limited panel of approved Doctors).
This 'confusing' situation arose, when an MCA Examiner insisted on an ENG1 rather than my existing ML5 for a Boatmaster Grade 1 Licence. Insisting that this was for "at sea" waters (although only likely to operate under 3M x 15M rule). It seems for BML's to be adjudicated on a local basis.
However, RYA may be contravening the 60M rule by accepting ML5's for all commercial endorsements. If the MCA get pedantic on a certification check, could be embarrasing.
 
Re: Commercial endorsements invalid - MCA Medical requirements.

But its clear in the code of practice that you need ship captains medical for category 0 or1, is this the same as ENG1?

This is a copy from the blue code for sailing vessels, that I carry.

2.2.8 First Aid Courses

Skippers or another member of the crew of vessels which operate in area category 2, 3 or 4 should hold a DTp First Aid at Sea Certificate or a certificate issued by a voluntary society following the successful completion of a first aid course approved by the Health and Safety Executive. Such courses should have extra emphases on the treatment of hypothermia and casualty evacuation.

Skippers of vessels operating in area category 0 or 1 should hold a DTp Ship Captain's Medical Training Certificate unless another member of the crew hold a medical or nursing qualification of an equivalent or a higher standard.

The full code is here
http://www.bluemoment.com/codeofpractice/index.html
 
Re: Commercial endorsements invalid - MCA Medical requirements.

ENG 1 is a personal medical examination certificate, not done by your own GP. MCA have a nominated panel of Doctors. Also lasts for 3 years not 5 years which is ML5. ENG 1 is much more thorough in assessing fitness.

Ships Captains Medical is a medical training certificate & yes, should be held by Cat 0 sailing or more than 60 miles offshore.

MCA seem to have an ambivalent attitude to qualifications. They 'cherrypick' by policing easily found pro-yachties (STCW 95 et al) in UK & Med (superyachts etc), but ignore policing those held by Transatlantic delivery or ARC charter yacht skippers on British flagged vessels. MCA prefer to get involved only when MAIB called in. But have advised me that in the event of an 'incident', this could invalidate 'any' insurance issues if skipper not 'properly' qualified with required bits of paper!
 
OK

Here are the facts

Following the letter of the MCA regs you need a ENG1 for Yachtmaster Offshore and Ocean. However Adv Power and coastalskippers can get away with a ML5.

Everyone who goes to sea commercially with the MCA codes requires a medical every 2 yrs, regardless of which one you have.

It so happens that the RYA only ask you to show it every five yrs, it also so happens that the RYA have been stamping YM certs with a ML5 for some time now.

In simple terms the ML5 has to be done by a GP, the ENG1 is done by a doctor approved by the MCA, both are similar price but the ENG1 is a far more thourough medical. Most of our students pay £60 to £70 for their medical, I had mine re-done last month and was charged £62, I also left the MCA Doctor having received a thourough medical and feeling I had my moneys worth.

Now here are my own opinions

My conclusion is go for the ENG1.

The RYA in actual fact interpret the MCA regs slightly differently from the MCA.

The cost of the medical and comm. endorsement is a fraction of what you earn in a week and a fraction of what you paid for your original YM certificate. As RYA Yachtmaster skippers you are still paying far less than the equivelent MCA (Master 200).
 
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