Combined harnass and lifejacket or seperate?

[CharlesM]

Hello all

Regarding lifejackets and harnasses. Should I get combined items, or should I go for seperate items? What are the pro's and cons of each option.

The solution should be viable for long term cruising as well as costal hopping.

Also, if going combined harnass lifejacket auto - is a £49 really worse than a £120 model?

Regards
Charles

 

[asj1]

Why bother with struggling into two pieces of kit when one will do...........also under what circumstances would you ever wear the harness but not the lifejacket?

 

[CharlesM]

I dont know what circumstances one may wear the harnass but not the lifejacket. I can think of many instances to wear the lifejacket and not the harnass.

Also, are auto inflate jackets really that much better than a foam one? Will a foam one get in the way?

Charles

 

[DavidBolger]

If you get a combined one, make sure you get crotch straps aswell

 

[tome]

Definitely combined. The bulkiest part is the tether so you can wear it as a normal lifejacket if you wish without the tether attached.

I recently disposed of all our autos models which had the old style salt tablet firing mechanism. A moderate amount of spray is all you need to set them off, usually at the most inconvenient or embarassing moment. I replaced them all a couple of years ago with the Hanmar hydrostatic release and haven't yet had an accidental inflation.

The lifejacket should have a light and a sprayhood plus crutch straps. For reasons best known to themselves, the manufacturers don't seem to be able to attach the sprayhood permanently so they are sold as an extra. The crutch straps mean that they can be worn a little looser around the chest which makes them more comfortable for long term use. Gentlemen should beware of sitting down quickly when wearing crutch straps!

It's important (especially with the Hanmar mechanism) to make sure the gas bottle is screwed fully home, and this is part of our safety checks when we issue the lifejackets. Ours are numbered 1 to 6 and each crew takes one, checks it and adjusts it to fit. They are then responsible for stowing them until required.

 

[Guest]

Contrary to what I think most people will recommend, I would go for separate ones. I have two of the leading makes of combined ones, but don't like them at all, and am intending to get a lifejacket without a harness for my own personal use on board. Guests will have to continue to suffer the combined ones /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The reason? The D-ring of the harness, together with the weight of the line and Gibb hooks is a substantial weight at the front. This pulls the lifejacket onto the back of my neck. It is OK for an hour or two, but over a period of time gives me the feeling that I am being strangled and induces sea-sickness and a sore neck.

A much better solution IMHO is a harness built into my wet weather jacket. This is extremely comfortable, and means that I always have the harness on in anything but the balmiest of weather. When I'm doing a 'serious' sail, I have an elasticated lifeline with gibb hooks dangling from the front of my jacket at all times ready to clip on, and it gets in the way not at all. I intend to buy a lifejacket without the weight of the D-ring on the front to wear on top of this.

 

[Guest]

Oh dear Tome, don't say we're disagreeing about this one too! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[iangrant]

Mine has a nice teak pattern and doesn't rub my neck..

Ian

 

[Guest]

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif))))))))))))

 

[tome]

No right or wrong, it's down to personal preference.

I've had seperate harness and lifejacket, and also have a built-in harness for my jacket. We used to have very bulky autos when I was on survey ships, but I found them very uncomfortable after an hour or so.

I find the modern versions (mine's a Crewfit) very comfortable by comparison, and haven't suffered the problems you describe. I no longer use the built-in harness in my jacket - in fact I've removed it.

But your opinion is equally valid, provided you don't revert to words like 'naff' to describe mine!

 

[RupertW]

I've removed my in-jacket harness too, in favour of a combined auto-inflate (and NOW I know to check the cylinder is tight - Hanmars are often very safe from auto-inflating accidentally, or even when needed). I like to be able to sail without wearing a jacket when it's warm, so had to have a separate harness anyway.

I can't think of a time when I've ever actually worn the lifejackets I've carried around from boat to boat, but I do now that it's part of the harness. When would you put a lifejacket on, except when actually abandoning ship? (and don't say, in fog - that's just for the exam)

 

[CharlesM]

Rupert

I read your post as saying Hanmars may not inflate when required?

Charles

 

[pandroid]

Yeah, I've recently switched too. I used to have the harness embedded in the jacket (ever since I had to put one on in a hurry in the middle of the channel). I always thought lifejackets were something you put on getting into the liferaft.

Eventually I got fed up with the weight of it in the harness in the jacket, when wearing it on wet but windless days.

I now tend to use the combined system (Crewfit). I still mostly use it when I want a harness, but I get the jacket as a freebie and as I've got older I've been more concious of how bad a swimmer I am.

I've never forgotten the horror story of the old couple coming across the channel a few years ago in a Westerly. She had a jacket on but no harness, and got washed (or fell) overboard. He got back to her but couldnt get her back on board. He let go and never saw her again...

 

[RupertW]

Re: Hanmars not inflating

Yup - there have been a few threads on this. The basic problem is that the trigger fires - but onto a cylinder that is partially unscrewed. Most servicing places now put a little loctite on to solve the problem - but I bought my Crewsaver in 2002 before that became common practice. I I tried it out on a Sea Survival course and heard the trigger firing followed by an ominous silence and no inflation.

You can actually feel whether the cylinder is partially unscrewed and tighten it through the fabric. The problem is that you don't know whether it has already lost it's contents, so unless you can tell by weight, it's probably best to get a new cylinder and fit it with a little light loctite, or send it in for a service if you are very cautious. If you're buying now then I doubt you'll have a problem.

 

[Stork_III]

For sailing around England/ N Europe at least, with even summer water temps well below what will cause rapid loss of body core temperature ie hypothermia.

If you feel the need for a harness, then you ought to have a lifejacket on as well.

If you feel the need for a lifejacket then you should be clipped on ie be wearing a harness.

Combined or separate ? no contest. --COMBINED WINS

 

[Guest]

I would disagree. If you have separate harness/lifejacket, there is nothing to stop you putting both on at the same time, which defeats your logic.

The problem with combined, apart from the fact that IMHO combined ones are damned uncomfortable, is if, for any reason, you decide that you don't want to wear a lifejacket at a particular moment, by definition you cannot be wearing your harness at that moment.

I know that in theory we should all be wearing both all of the time, but returning to the real world for a moment, few people do. Do a statistical analysis of the crew on passing yachts, and I would guess that typically one person in ten may be wearing their lifejackets on a typical day.

I am probably about average so far as wearing a lifejacket is concerned, but I am far more likely to wear one if it is lightweight, which is why I want to buy one like that, without the heavy D-ring. But I am probably wearing my harness a good 50% of the time, because I can't put my jacket on without doing so.

For those who of you who wear combined lifejackets more than 50% of the time, and find them comfortable, you have undoubtedly found the best system for you and I congratulate you. But for the other 90% of people that I see sailing past not wearing them, their system for whatever reason isn't working.

 

[fireball]

I'm not sure what this heavy D ring is you keep going on about ...
sure - we've got D rings on our auto-inflate LJs but it makes no real difference to the overall comfort/weight of the thing. Are you sure you haven't bought a custom made one and someone shuved a ships anchor chain loop in it for you? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

It really is down to personal preference - there may be times when you would prefer not to have a lifejacket on, but want a harness on (can't think of any off hand) or would rather have built-in harness in your coat.

My preference is for the combined one, saves having to put two items on when one will do.

 

[Guest]

Neither the D-ring nor the lifejacket in themselves are inherently heavy things, but wear them over a long period of time and the forward pull becomes a nuisance rubbing the back of the neck. Very few people wear their lifejackets for extended periods, so I think many people don't notice (for the 10%-odd who do wear them all the time, and presumably don't have this problem, my congratulations). The D-ring, though not particularly heavy, represents a considerable proportion of the weight of the lifejacket. So I gave up wearing it. I have tried Baltic, Crewsaver and another make, whose name I forget.

This pull means that it is not practical to dangle a couple of Gibb hooks and lifeline permanently off the front, they need to be attached each time you want to use them. With my harness built into the jacket, I leave an elastic lifeline permanently dangling from the front, which means that it is available to use even if I have to leap onto the foredeck to deal with something in a real hurry, probably one of the situations when you are most likely to slip.

Obviously, if you are clipped on while sitting in the cockpit (as you should be in very heavy weather), with a combined arrangement you have the steady pull of not only the D-ring, but also the Gibb hook and line.

A combined jacket with D-ring is fine if you're using it to pop out into the Solent for a day sail. But looking at people who sail all the time, such as liveaboards, I see very few indeed (well none, to be honest), wearing lifejackets all the time (I know that this is tempting a contribution from a liveaboard to contradict me! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif). But I know that, even when I have been sailing for months at a time, at the end of that period, I have still been wearing my harness on a daily basis.

Doing so has undoubtedly saved the life of one friend of mine who was swept out of the cockpit at night by a big wave while I was helming. He was wearing a separate harness, clipped on in the cockpit, but not a lifejacket. Had he been issued instead with a combined jacket/harness, I really do not know whether he would have been wearing it.