Colregs revisited

Colin_S

Colin_S

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Recently on a local river we were sailing upstream on starboard tack with another yacht coming downstream straight towards us on port. But, he was on the correct side of the river and we were not.
Should we have yelled starboard or should we have altered course to the correct side of the river?
Probably not worth mentioning we were racing at the time /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
One hour, 26 views, 0 replies - is this a record?

My Colregs book is on the boat so I can't look it up. But I think I would guess at the "narrow channels" rule taking precedence.

Now I've put my head on the block! C'mon guys someone must have the book handy?
 
First: if it's on a local non-tidal fresh water local river,l and it sounds like you are, then IRPCS do not apply - you are not at "sea". Instead, CEVNI applies, and you should keep to the right side of the river.

But assuming for a moment that it's salty tidal sort of local river. If the other vessel were "restricted in its ability to manoeuvre" that would of course takes precedence over the port/starboard rule. In this case he may not be, or he may be, but anyway common sense would dictate that you shouldn't have to start quizzing the other boat about how restricted he is, and the starboard tack boat should move over out of the way to the right hand side of the river anyway. I think IRPCS says so too, but don't have it handy to check.

Of course, if you're BOTH racing then you'd also want to look at the racing rules, or you might get disqualified...
 
The rules are quite simple, in restricted waters all vesels keep to starboard, and in most places sails should not be used at all. Sail must give way to anything over. I think 20mtrs. there abouts anyway. Cant understand why you maniacs cant just follow the rules.
 
I assumed naturally from his accent and Gallic name that Colin is French
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sail must give way to anything over. I think 20mtrs. there abouts anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting concept - but I don't think its in the Colregs!

I used to work on an 80 metre square rigger - I don't think we were required to give way to 20 metre power vessels!
 
That's not what you said before you deleted and re-entered you post! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, judging by his posts, he's East Coast UK
 
hm, better take a look at rule 9b then. A vessel under 20metres, or a sailing vessel, shall not impede a vessel restricted to a narrow channel. But this probably doesn't apply anyway: the original poster makes no mention of whether he is restricted or not but seeing as it *seems* he can be at either side of the river, he should be on the right hand side.

quite right brendan, the code europeén des voies navigables interieur doesn't apply in the uk. In any event, if Cevni applies you should still be on the right hand side.

Racing makes no difference. But shouting starboard is ALWAYS a great move - i even saw someone shout it whilst motoring.
 
Hmm.... Off Cowes recently a yeller welly with a racing flag was tacking backwards and forwards to get the best position on the starting line. I waited until he was on a port tack and slid by close to his stern to get clear of the lot of them. Cheeky [--word removed--] leant over the stern and yelled STARBOARD, TACK ORF!!!!
Guess my reply......
 
Of course, don't forget the possibility of a local byelaw or port reg that requires someone going against the stream or tide to give way to someone running with the stream or tide, as a subset of the rules concerning restriction in ability to steer.
 
Interesting one. Which rule takes precedence? If both sail driven, suggest it's P&S that takes precedece.

Go on flame away /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
I agree, assuming the boat on port coming towards them is not restricted in his ability to alter course. However, I always instruct the helm that as the boat on starboard we have a duty to maintain a course to give the other guy the best chance of avoiding us.

When tacking up an estuary, whether racing or not, it may be necessary to change course a little, in the interests of both being responsible in avoiding a collision.
 
Correct and real-world answer

Irpcs isn't the real-world rules of course, especially between sailing boats.

Thus if it was actually YOU racing up a channel on the wrong side, you'd need to identify yourself as The Gungho Lunatic With Nothing To Lose In This Encounter as quickly as possible by having crew starting shouting from the bows as earl;y as poss "starboard!" or possibly "We're racing!" or any swear words would be fine such "oi ***ing wakey wakey!"

With any luck it might be SimonCr coming the other way or someone who feels that Colregs is always a bit iffy so you could try "It's CEVNI here innit!!!" or " Collision Regulations Rule 27 paragraph 3c for crissakes! " might easily easily work. In fact almost any of these would work against me unless i had some very yottie mates incl a local bigwig on board who said "oh god it that loonie Gordon, ignore him, he always bottles out!" - but this usually isn't the case - the other guy is just a cautious sensible worried sailor like the rest of us.

Your crew should already have adopted Nutter Attire which is sunglasses all round regardless of conditions which adds to the impression that you can't see a thing and are really hot sailors, even though with a full season of racing in the med and everywhere else you're poncing about up a river but anyway ahem. Consider putting up a spinnaker if there's time. If you're wise you'll have a big advert sticker on the side of the boat that indicates that you don't care about smashups cos some sponsor pays for everything, not you, which makes you more frightening. At close range i did once hear myself shout "charter boat and i've paid the waiver!" or maybe that was another nightmare. Meanwhilebqck to the matter at hand, your helm aims directly for the other boat with occasional flicks off the wind so you force the other guy to the side you want.

As the boats pass, at least one of your crew should shake their head very slowly which hopefully convinces the other guy on the correct side of the river that he's missed something and it's his fault, not yours, which often works especially if your helm doesn't flinch.

If none of this works, and/or if you/your lot bottle out due to the other boat waving a colregs book or shouting another more likely colreg or looking Rather Important or being recognised as oops it's that instructor on his training boat or if he's swearing even louder, then you should post a Token Female at the nearest point of potential collision with the other boat to shout gently "sorree!" which resolves the situation regardless, somehow. She can say sorry a couple of times together with "its a new boat" (if it is new or new to you) as though all new boats can't easily be steered at all for the first two seasons or so.

Once you've played the Female Apology Gambit, you've raised the level of play and will usually win - the boat on the correct side of the river at this moment must immediately cease any swearing despite being completely in the right and despite his being put in danger entirely being your fault. He can choose to say "that's quite alright, no problem at all!" which is already an Official Let Off and Draw for you. Not a bad result for you really.

For him to Win and you to Obviously Lose, the boat on the correct side of the river can acknolwledge with only a nod (not saying "that's ok" which is an official Let Off and Drawas above) but at the same time shout down his companionway "that's right, yes, log entry 10:23 and 30 seconds BST is the time of the incident, location plus lat and long, the name of the other boat is etc etc and we can send it all off in the report!" and you Lose. Even better (ie worse for you) will be if he chats in the vhf "Yes bill, it's cliff here on channel 10 i'm not on duty at the moment but there's some idiots at st Mary's-in-the-swamp, you'd better haul them over with one of the volunteer patrols or send the chopper out" which a Definite Win for them. You can only get out of this by Being Foreign from now.

However , if the other boat continues their tirade reagrdless of your female apology - then you and your crew must take sunglasses off despite being in full swearing cry a moment ago and say "Goodness! what dreadful behaviour, there's children on board your/our boat, how utterly appalling, call yourself a skipper, learn some manners! Dreadful!" and so on. Then, the other boat loses quite badly, and you've spolit their morning despite it being all entirely your fault.
 
Yes, my first thought was that if not CEVNI then whatever UK inland rules there are should apply wherever IRPCS runs out. But the implications of that were a bit complicated, so I gave up and posted an easier answer. But seeing as you mention it, then here goes! BTW none of the following effects the final answer, which is still: "keep to the right". The only thing is that by looking at IRPCS to get the answer we may be looking at the wrong set of rules.

If there is no code, and I can't think of any UK one in place of CEVNI, there must however still be some rules for canals etc. since vessels have been navigating rivers and canals since long before IRPCS was thought of. In the absence of a code then time honoured custom applies, ie. the position pre-IRPCS., ie (presumably) keep to the right. There must be a whole host of inland river customs which we are unaware of.

But then looking at IRPCS I see that the code applies to waterways connected to the sea navigable by seagoing vessels. Well, taken literally, that could mean anything that a sea-canoe could go up, but I don't think that sea canoes is what IRPCS is referring to. And on the continent, the authorities clearly envisage that IRPCS is overtaken by CEVNI at some point, even though some rivers are navigable by seagoing vessels. Interestingly in any event it means that even in the UK IRPCS for example certainly doesn't apply on a lake not connected by a river navigable all the way to the sea.
 
Re: Correct and real-world answer

Love it!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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