Colregs confusion

[Yealm]

Actually it may just be me who is confused !

As I read it a power driven vessel and a pilot boat are to turn on their sidelights/sternlights when underway.
But if the vessel is other types (ie fishing, NOC, RM), then these lights are turned on when making way.

Is there a logic to using sidelights/sternlights differently depending on vessel type/situation ?
And is 'making way' defined by Colregs - I haven't been able to find it.

Many thanks !

 

[LittleSister]

My interpretation is that Fishing Vessels, vessels Not Under Command, and vessels Restricted in their Ability to Manoeuvre, may well be drifting (which would be underway (i.e. not fixed to anything) but not making way) and not in a position to start making way at short notice. The difference in light shows whether they are in that mode.

A Pilot Vessel, by contrast, is, like most vessels, not constrained in that way, and other vessels are only likely to be interested in whether or not it is underway.

(I wasn't clear about 'CBD'. I assumed this is an abbreviation of Constrained By Draft, but couldn't see any reference to a 'making way' criterion for lighting such vessels. )

 

[Yealm]

My interpretation is that Fishing Vessels, vessels Not Under Command, and vessels Restricted in their Ability to Manoeuvre, may well be drifting (which would be underway (i.e. not fixed to anything) but not making way) and not in a position to start making way at short notice. The difference in light shows whether they are in that mode.

A Pilot Vessel, by contrast, is, like most vessels, not constrained in that way, and other vessels are only likely to be interested in whether or not it is underway.

(I wasn't clear about 'CBD'. I assumed this is an abbreviation of Constrained By Draft, but couldn't see any reference to a 'making way' criterion for lighting such vessels. )

Yes your explanation makes perfect sense - thanks
(though to my inflexible mind, the lack of consistency of the lights is annoying and makes it harder to remember all the rules !)

Sorry my mistake, I meant NOC (rather than CBD) - corrected.

 

[viago]

My interpretation is that Fishing Vessels, vessels Not Under Command, and vessels Restricted in their Ability to Manoeuvre, may well be drifting (which would be underway (i.e. not fixed to anything) but not making way) and not in a position to start making way at short notice. The difference in light shows whether they are in that mode.

A Pilot Vessel, by contrast, is, like most vessels, not constrained in that way, and other vessels are only likely to be interested in whether or not it is underway.

(I wasn't clear about 'CBD'. I assumed this is an abbreviation of Constrained By Draft, but couldn't see any reference to a 'making way' criterion for lighting such vessels. )

what?

'underway' is drifting around a a bit and 'making way' is proceeding with attitude?

well that's not common usage. underway means you're heading off. it doesn't mean 'oh i'll drift about a a bit and see where i end up'

and you think people are more interested in a pilot vessel drifting about a bit than proceeding with attitude in your general direction?

 

[LittleSister]

what?

'underway' is drifting around a a bit and 'making way' is proceeding with attitude?

well that's not common usage. underway means you're heading off. it doesn't mean 'oh i'll drift about a a bit and see where i end up'

'INTERNATIONAL REGULATIONS FOR PREVENTING COLLISIONS AT SEA, 1972 (as amended by Resolutions A464(XII), A626(15), A678(16), A736(18) and A.910(22)) PART A - GENERALRule 1
. . .
Rule 3
General definitions
For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise requires: . . .

__ (i) The word “underway” means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.'

 

[viago]

'INTERNATIONAL REGULATIONS FOR PREVENTING COLLISIONS AT SEA, 1972 (as amended by Resolutions A464(XII), A626(15), A678(16), A736(18) and A.910(22)) PART A - GENERALRule 1
. . .
Rule 3
General definitions
For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise requires: . . .

__ (i) The word “underway” means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.'

well that clearly includes motoring along at full speed.

 

[LittleSister]

well that clearly includes motoring along at full speed.

Yes. That's what I wrote in post #2.

Pilot vessels have to show sidelights when they are underway, whether or not they are motoring along.

Fishing vessels, Not Under Commands and Restricted Manoeuvreables only show sidelights if they are motoring (or sailing) along, not if they are underway but just drifting about.

 

[viago]

Yes. That's what I wrote in post #2.

Pilot vessels have to show sidelights when they are underway, whether or not they are motoring along.

Fishing vessels, Not Under Commands and Restricted Manoeuvreables only show sidelights if they are motoring (or sailing) along, not if they are underway but just drifting about.

yes i know, my point was that common usage of 'underway' indicates going from a to b in most people's minds whereas you are saying that is 'making way' according to colregs.

i'm not arguing that you are wrong but that it seems counter intuitive to me. it's a matter of semantics.

 

[LittleSister]

i'm not arguing that you are wrong but that it seems counter intuitive to me. it's a matter of semantics.

It's not a matter of semantics.

It's a matter of what the Regulations themselves explicitly define as 'underway' for the purposes of those regulations.

 

[Richard10002]

yes i know, my point was that common usage of 'underway' indicates going from a to b in most people's minds whereas you are saying that is 'making way' according to colregs.

i'm not arguing that you are wrong but that it seems counter intuitive to me. it's a matter of semantics.

Looks like you don't bother with the Collision Regulations then?

 

[MADRIGAL]

In daylight hours, the drifting pilot boat could fly the Signal flag MIKE, meaning “Stopped, making no way through the water” in the International Code of Signals, but I doubt they would do this.

 

[Whitlock]

In daylight hours, the drifting pilot boat could fly the Signal flag MIKE, meaning “Stopped, making no way through the water” in the International Code of Signals, but I doubt they would do this.

Or, at night, a red over white over red.

 

[viago]

Looks like you don't bother with the Collision Regulations then?

sometimes, as the feeling takes me.

i pretty much ignore the right of way rules all of the time.

if it's bigger and harder than me then i get out of the way.

let me see if i've got this straight.

if i'm underway i might be making way and if i'm making way i could be underway and either way i should turn some lights on if i have them.

i'm glad that's been cleared up for me.

 

[RichardS]

sometimes, as the feeling takes me.

i pretty much ignore the right of way rules all of the time.

if it's bigger and harder than me then i get out of the way.

let me see if i've got this straight.

if i'm underway i might be making way and if i'm making way i could be underway and either way i should turn some lights on if i have them.

i'm glad that's been cleared up for me.

First you need to buy a boat.

Richard

 

[viago]

First you need to buy a boat.

Richard

then you need to get it working.

 

[capnsensible]

The day shape for 'I am engaged in trolling on an Internet forum ' is a green circle with a white cross inside it.

 

[john_morris_uk]

First you need to buy a boat.

Richard

Does viago need another one? He’s already got one boat he keeps in Portugal IIRC.

 

[RichardS]

then you need to get it working.

That pithy response has to rate as one of the most accurate observations that I've ever read on these forums.

Richard

 

[RichardS]

Does viago need another one? He’s already got one boat he keeps in Portugal IIRC.

But, with Martin, one never really knows whether one is being given the unvarnished truth.

Richard

 

[john_morris_uk]

But, with Martin, one never really knows whether one is being given the unvarnished truth.

Richard

That may or may not be true, but I've actually met Martin in the flesh.