collision regs advice

[jon and michie]

Hi - Now this thread is slightly light hearted so dont take offence - I have posted here as this occurrence happened on the River Crouch.
Last Friday my Wife and I decided to take our motor boat towards the North Sea and we went down the River Roach from North Fambridge where we are based- the main reason for the little outing was to wash the hull as the boat hadn't been taken out for a while and we didn't want foul build up.
On the way back on approach to the swinging moorings at Fambridge we were going to be passing next to the visitor pontoon at the Yacht station as we were nearing a Yacht in the next channel under motor going in the opposite direction suddenly did a U turn in front of us and rushed to get the one spot available on the Yacht station pontoon - As the Yachtie came along side the pontoon we heard a long scraping noise as his bow came into contact with the pontoon.
Now not wanting to wish bad on anyone here but me and my wife both laughed as we realised he thought we was going to take "His" spot and in his rushing, carelessness and being Inpatient scraped his boat as we continued past the moorings to reach our berth in the Marina.

Right that was the scenario -but what if the Yachtie had caused us to collide with him as he just pulled out in front of us - who would be at fault ? like I said he was running his engine not under sail power - I am pretty sure it would be the Yacht but that is my opinion.

 

[xyachtdave]

Possibly turning the boat into the tide to berth on pontoon?

Probably didn’t even see you and regularly hits the pontoon while shouting at their partner that it’s all their fault.

Someone on deck with a boat hook, shouting, revving engine smashed from forward to reverse, cries of ‘fend off’…crash!

 

[jon and michie]

xyachtdave - the elderly chap in question was on his own - now not being yacht familiar it did have 2 steering wheels like a bsm learner driver car lol

 

[xyachtdave]

xyachtdave - the elderly chap in question was on his own - now not being yacht familiar it did have 2 steering wheels like a bsm learner driver car lol

Crew hiding below in embarrassment then!

2 wheels….very trendy, I like one big one myself…

 

[Bru]

No way to know what was in the yacht skipper's thoughts but as already suggested maybe he actually hadn't seen you

It has happened to me in almost exactly the same circs. Passing down one trot over to swing into the tide between two moored boats only to realise too late that there was a boat coming upriver between the pontoon and the first trot (another yacht in that instance) that I simply hadn't seen. At that stage, there wasn't a lot I could do, what with the ebb running fairly hard, other than complete the manoeuvre and shout "sorry" as he went past

If for no other reason than self defence (!) might I venture to diffidently suggest that if one is not aiming for the pontoon, it might be better to eschew the usual keep right and pass through the moorings a couple of trots away from the pontoon. (Once upon a time, everybody went up and down river over by the South Bank but that seems to have gone by the board in recent years).

I suggest this since if nothing else it would reduce the chances of your having to dodge us unpredictable WAFIs

 

[LittleSister]

Right that was the scenario -but what if the Yachtie had caused us to collide with him as he just pulled out in front of us - who would be at fault ? like I said he was running his engine not under sail power - I am pretty sure it would be the Yacht but that is my opinion.

I am not clear what you mean by the yacht being in the 'next channel', but assuming you were on your respective starboard sides of the river, and the pontoon was further to your starboard, it would seem you would have been correctly set up for vessels on opposite headings passing port to port. By turning across your bows he was in the wrong, I think, unless he did so well clear of you.

 

[Bru]

I am not clear what you mean by the yacht being in the 'next channel', but assuming you were on your respective starboard sides of the river, and the pontoon was further to your starboard, it would seem you would have been correctly set up for vessels on opposite headings passing port to port. By turning across your bows he was in the wrong, I think, unless he did so well clear of you.

It's specific to the location - there is a pontoon just off the North bank of the river (on your starboard side as you come upstream) with four trots of moorings across the river between it and the other bank

Jon was (from his description) proceeding upriver between the pontoon and the first trot of moorings, the yacht was proceeding downstream between the first and second trots

Trouble is, in order to turn into the tide to come alongside the pontoon, you have to approach between the first and second trots and turn between the moored boats (or go right to the end but that's a couple of cables or more in both directions) and it's all too easy to fail to spot another boat under way due to all the moored boats

Shenanigans are a fairly regular occurrence but almost always pass without any real mishap as nearly everybody proceeds at a sensible speed and can deal with whatever occurs. It's only the occasional idiot who roars through the moorings at speed (NOT the OP I hasten to add) that could cause a serious accident. Fortunately, it hasn't happened ... yet

 

[Marmalade]

You're both treated by collision regs as power vessels. You can't suddenly alter course into the path of another vessel - that's causing a collision, and if the other vessel is unable to get out of the way in time will be the fault of the vessel making the sudden and late alteration.

Rule 2 (a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

"the ordinary practice" I would think includes not suddenly turning into someone's path...

Then - the obligations are set out in the rules - I always think of the rhyme I was taught

If to starboard red appear
'tis your duty to keep clear
and do as judgement says is proper -
port or starboard, back or stop her

If both lights you see ahead
there's no danger do not dread
starboard turn and show your red

If upon your port is seen
another vessel's light that's green
then stand-on sir; that's what you do
for green to port gives way to you

 

[Bru]

This is one of those situations where it's dangerous, or at least potentially so, to get to hidebound about the letter of the Colregs without taking into account that the regulations abound with caveats and qualifications

Indeed, rule 2(a) contains the phrase "the special circumstances of the case" and the situation at Fambridge Yacht Station where vessels are routinely manoeuvring on and off the pontoon, onto and off moorings and tenders of all shapes and sizes are pottering around the moorings (not to mention swimmers, paddle boarders and so on) could certainly be described as "special" in the context of the regulations

"9(a) (a). A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable." is the relevant rule here and I submit that it can be argued that it is neither safe nor practicable to pass between the pontoon and the first trot of moorings

Actually, it's not especially unsafe and it's clearly practicable but there is an argument for it being safer with less risk of aggravation to move one or better two trots over (and thus pass well clear of the action in the middle of the river)

 

[Tomahawk]

Red to red go ahead
Green to green language obscene

 

[Capt Popeye]

Might suggest its not the Col Regs advice you looking for , its Good Boatmanship advice , in this case keeping well clear of any Landing Stages or Marinas when you are not using them ; and there is not really in practical terms a 'right side of thge river' to be on ; most boats will change their sides of the river to get out of the current if its against them , when in this sittuation maybe change course , but not necessarily sides of the river , to pass on the correct side of each other , then its rather like the through marine traffic keeping well away from the local traffic which has other destinations in mind ; you will get used to it in time ; best wishes on your voyages of discovery afloat ; be prepared is the moto when going through moorings , take great care CP

 

[jon and michie]

Thanks for all the replies - Capt Popeye the issue I had was the yacht just turned in front of me and he did have a good clear vision - I slowed down more to allow him to get out of my way mainly so he could get his spot on the pontoon - he payed a penalty in the scraping of his hull

 

[jimi]

Sounds to me , based on what you have said, as if the yottie was being a dick if you had to slow down to avoid him. Fairly clearcut I'd have thort!

 

[johnalison]

I have been involved in racing for a berth on occasion and I can confirm that considerations of courtesy do tend to be put aside on these occasions. In my defence I would say that this would have been abroad and my competition were all foreigners. I don't know the waterway described enough to know if the OP was following the natural course along the river, but it sounds as if this was so, in which case it was a matter of the green mist coming over the solo yachtsman.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Suppose that the part of Col Regs that states the onus is on Everyone to avoid collisions , so guess the Poster did ok on that point , guess altering plus slowing down are all part of the boating habit when in confined waters ; yes the other party appears to have acted inconsiderately but possibly within the Rules so his actions required all others to avoid a collision which apparently they did ; was the tide under the other party or not ? having to deal with the Tide /Current can make us all do silly things at times especially when in restricted quarters where there are limits upon handling , which some can handle more effectively then others .

Guess that part of Col Regs which clearly states all parties to avoid a collision apply in posters case , which the poster clearly did , sucessfully , as the other party can verify ;

 

[jon and michie]

As a slight update - we sailed out over the weekend and looked at the distance from the pontoon and the first set of swing moorings which are at least 100ft ish - so the yachtsman had plenty of room to manouvre.
anyway all said and done no harm was caused to us.

 

[Cobra]

Last Friday my Wife and I decided to take our motor boat towards the North Sea and we went down the River Roach from North Fambridge where we are based- the main reason for the little outing was to wash the hull as the boat hadn't been taken out for a while and we didn't want foul build up.

Not wishing to be pedantic...but I am going to be!

I always thought that Fambridge was on the Crouch...just saying!!!

 

[jon and michie]

Not to be pedantic but we went to the North sea and the river roach via the crouch.
Just saying

 

[C08]

Stand on vessel but still a selfish Tw..t. Large sailing boat sailing downwind gooswinged 6-8 knots in the centre of the Emsworth Channel between moored boats, me motoring cat going up. Unsure whether he has seen me or even cares so have to duck between moored boats as he screamed past. Heeled over and boom right out I was not sure even if he moved to the channel edge if there was room for me to pass. Grrr..