Coastguard cutbacks

[dancrane]

Apologies for raising this, weeks after it became news. I'm still in the dark.

Would anyone like a bet with me, that there'll be deaths in the Channel, within months of the reduced manning of coastguard posts? I'm afraid I'm inclined to think the policymakers will regard drownings and other calamities as sad, but good value, in return for the savings to the exchequer.

I recently moved to a 30-limit residential road; it's also a damned rat-run for commuters, all of whom regard 30mph as a minimum. I predict a dreadful accident in my street, which a few speed-bumps would have averted. I've heard that every road death costs the authorities a cool £million. I wonder if Westminster will regret the coastguard cutbacks, if yachtsmen start dying from lack of staff at unsociable hours?

Has anybody suggested how we may collectively voice our disgust?

 

[pvb]

Would anyone like a bet with me, that there'll be deaths in the Channel, within months of the reduced manning of coastguard posts? I'm afraid I'm inclined to think the policymakers will regard drownings and other calamities as sad, but good value, in return for the savings to the exchequer.

I'd happily bet with you. The proposed changes are aimed at improving the efficiency of an antiquated organisation. With one of the main Operations Centres in the Portsmouth/Southampton area, and with the Dover sub-centre also operating 24/7, I can't think why you're predicting doom and gloom in the Channel.

I recently moved to a 30-limit residential road; it's also a damned rat-run for commuters, all of whom regard 30mph as a minimum. I predict a dreadful accident in my street, which a few speed-bumps would have averted. I've heard that every road death costs the authorities a cool £million. I wonder if Westminster will regret the coastguard cutbacks, if yachtsmen start dying from lack of staff at unsociable hours?

A lot of people in my village moaned about speeding ratrunners in the main street. We pressed the local highways authority to put in speed measuring equipment for a week. The results? Average speeds were actually well below 30mph! End of complaints.

Speed bumps are dangerous and damaging, and have no place in a modern road network.

Has anybody suggested how we may collectively voice our disgust?

Yes, the MCA has a full consultation running, and you can express your views online. Or write to the Daily Mail.

 

[dancrane]

You're on.

It's no pleasure to me, to whine about government policy. I'm just afraid the cutbacks to coastguard services relate to hard times economically, more than to an overdue spending review. A slicker service is welcome; this smacks of crash-dieting.

I'm delighted that residents of your village are such poor judges of speed. I'm not; and the automated electric 'SLOW DOWN' sign in our street confirms that a vast majority of motorists exceed 30mph. No joke, my friend, a shocking percentage exceed 50. I don't want speed-bumps, but the only damage they cause is to vehicles driven recklessly. And I favour that, over flattened infants and pets, and terrified OAPs.

We seem to live in an age of freakish weather, and we've endured it with public services set to (just) cope when they occur. The issue with coastguard cuts is not in respect of occasional call-outs, when doubtless a slender service will cope. The problem is summer storms and squalls when hundreds of witless, ill-equipped and inexperienced yachtsmen are at sea as conditions turn vicious. Cut back the coastguard, and you cut holes in the safety net.

 

[pvb]

The problem is summer storms and squalls when hundreds of witless, ill-equipped and inexperienced yachtsmen are at sea as conditions turn vicious.

You have a poor opinion of your fellow yachtsmen!

 

[Robin]

You have a poor opinion of your fellow yachtsmen!

Or the RNLI who are the ones that actually get wet when the need arises, not the CG in their warm ops rooms handing out radiochecks or advising us that they are 'working' to rule.

 

[dancrane]

I sincerely hope my pessimism is unfounded. I'm genuinely alarmed at how unready huge numbers of small-boat sailors are when putting to sea. A pal and I crossed the Solent between Chichester and Seaview twenty years ago, in a Topper, in a fog. We were too young and stupid even to pack a compass.

Maximum respect to the RNLI...I'd like to hear their view (not an official puppet/spokesman's) on the cuts proposed. And aren't the helicopters to be slashed? Their range and speed is great, but if they have to cover twice or thrice the length of coast, they'll be compromised, especially when there's a sudden gale on a previously blissful bank-holiday, and the world, his wife and his kids are on board every boat afloat. Not good, but probable and preventable.

 

[Quandary]

You are a leisure sailor, why not take charge of your own safety?
The Coastguard will not be rescuing you if you do not, but they may pass on you call for help to someone who will, it is unlikely that you will be within sight when they do, no matter how many stations they have. I just realised that in over forty years of sailing, the only contact I have ever had with them was when we reported that we were towing in a drifting motorboat that had sent a distress call to them by mobile phone and they sent a man in a van to tell the guy off and collect statistics on his lack of lifejackets, vhf etc..
When Clyde took over from Oban there were similar forecasts of doom for the west coast.

 

[Robin]

I sincerely hope my pessimism is unfounded. I'm genuinely alarmed at how unready huge numbers of small-boat sailors are when putting to sea. A pal and I crossed the Solent between Chichester and Seaview twenty years ago, in a Topper, in a fog. We were too young and stupid even to pack a compass.

Maximum respect to the RNLI...I'd like to hear their view (not an official puppet/spokesman's) on the cuts proposed. And aren't the helicopters to be slashed? Their range and speed is great, but if they have to cover twice or thrice the length of coast, they'll be compromised, especially when there's a sudden gale on a previously blissful bank-holiday, and the world, his wife and his kids are on board every boat afloat. Not good, but probable and preventable.

I don't think anyone has said rescue helicopters are to be slashed, just subcontracted out to private operators, which BTW is what is already the case in the Solent and Portland.

I think you are being alarmed by a storm in a teacup.

 

[Beadle]

There has been a lot of hysteria whipped up over this matter, mainly by those seeking to grind a political axe.

What will happen if you call on 16 is that you will be answered by a coastguard officer who will know the aerial that your call is received on and therefore the general area that you are in.

If you need rescue of help the coastguard will call the local RNLI RAF, RN or other agency that is appropriate, and pass the information to them. If you are injured the coastguard will ensure Ambulance is ready when the SAR organisation gets you ashore.

It is most unlikely that as a user you will notice any difference.

Worth remembering that coastguard do not (with a very small number of exceptions) carry out rescues, they a not a SAR organisation

 

[dancrane]

At Calshot last week, we watched a big helicopter circle, then drop a chap down a wire, then haul him up again after a while. An exercise, I expect, and pretty impressive stuff. But they must've gone through the kerosene, keeping five tons of chopper aloft on the spot for forty minutes. Not cheap. But not wasted either, if the exercise helps train them how to save lives. Pity, if the number of helicopters is to be cut (I heard there are 20, and that there will be only eight).

I am indeed a leisure sailor, and I've never needed rescuing yet, and I don't intend changing that. I'd readily set sail to help anyone I could help, if they needed it; I acknowledge that a high proportion of 'rescues' are made by non-rescue officers, just persons local to the scene. And I see that the coastguard is critical in connecting and co-ordinating victims with those people ready and able to help. But...

...when I get in the car, I belt-up; when I get in a boat, I put a lifejacket on. Not because I expect an accident, but because I want to be secure in the event of the unforseeable. Our current, costly coastguard set-up is preparation for bad times that just happen, unpredictably. If we trim back the service's cost, it's like we're slackening the seat-belt laws. It'll only be an improvement till the day when the worst happens. Are you prepared to bet that day'll never come?

 

[Searush]

How on earth do you think a "lifejacket will keep you safe"???


It will keep you afloat if you end up in the water (& it works) but that is ALL it can do. It will not keep you with your boat, it will not let you swim, it will not signal your presence to others - unless they happen to spot its bright colours.

I would not rely on a life Jacket to keep me safe. Or the Coastguard, or the RNLI, or any other organisation or individual. My intention is to keep myself safe & accept any additional help that may be offered. - should I be lucky enough.

 

[pvb]

Pity, if the number of helicopters is to be cut (I heard there are 20, and that there will be only eight).

Where do you dredge up all this misinformation? The planned privatisation of the SAR helicopters allowed for standardisation on the fast Sikorsky S92 helicopter, operating out of 12 bases nationwide - so there would have had to be at least 12 helicopters (edit: believe they would have had 24 S92s).

Anyway, academic now as the Soteria consortium's preferred bid has been consigned to the shredder following admissions of underhand dealings.

 

[dancrane]

Thank you, Searush. Presumably you also rely on your own careful driving, rather than rely on anything as uncomfortable as a seatbelt?

The lifejacket won't prevent disasters, but you'll be better equipped to survive them if you're wearing one. You won't be alive in the water for long, if you're not. I'm shocked if you need to be told!

If there were no search and rescue, no lifeboats, no coastguard service, we'd still be daft enough to get in boats, risk our wellbeing and have wild stories to tell afterward. That doesn't make it smart to steepen the odds against a safe passage. We can all do something to avoid having to call for help. But prudence and preparation don't cover all eventualities, and the coastguard is (was?) a reassurance. Tell me I'm wrong, next time you're out there in a gale.

 

[Searush]

Thank you, Searush. Presumably you also rely on your own careful driving, rather than rely on anything as uncomfortable as a seatbelt?

(snip).

Not a valid comparison as the risks are largely from other drivers on the roads. But, yes I drove without seat blets (& rode a m-bike without a helmet) for many years before it became a criminal offence to do so. And I managed to survive quite safely, despite the best attempts of some other road users.

My point is - Don't think that wearing a lifejacket will make you safe, it may not even save your life. It offers no protection against a heart attack, a blow on the head, or lots of other accidents that are probably more likely to occur.

Just try to think for yourself rather than accepting what others tell you (especially me!)

 

[Quandary]

Do I smell a troll? Or perhaps just a bored teenager?

 

[dancrane]

I'm not the type to take idiotic risks, then rely on other parties to bale me out. We're agreed: sailors ought to be responsible for themselves. And I don't lack foresight.

Surely the point on boats, is that if one suffers heart attack or a boom-blow to the head, one is likely to end up in the drink...and once there, unconscious, a lifejacket is just about the only thing that will save one's life?

My sister and I sat in the back of my dad's car, unseatbelted, through the 'seventies. We had no accidents, so seatbelts would've just restricted our fights. But I wonder how many people are dead, because they were not thus equipped? The only chap who survived Princess Di's Paris tunnel crash was the driver. Guess what he was wearing, which no-one else was?

 

[pvb]

The only chap who survived Princess Di's Paris tunnel crash was the driver. Guess what he was wearing, which no-one else was?

More complete bollocks! The driver, Henri Paul, was killed.

 

[Searush]

Do I smell a troll? Or perhaps just a bored teenager?

Very perceptive. Perhaps we should back out now, after all, he's required to know it all isn't he?

 

[dancrane]

Dear me, PVB, ought you to have your sedatives, old chap? Terribly excitable this afternoon. Though, you're quite right, it was actually bodyguard Trevor Rees-Jones who survived the Paris crash. But the point is, he alone was seatbelted.

Funny, I'd an idea this was a yachting forum...haven't you ever heard of metaphors?

 

[pvb]

Dear me, PVB, ought you to have your sedatives, old chap? Terribly excitable this afternoon. Though, you're quite right, it was actually bodyguard Trevor Rees-Jones who survived the Paris crash. But the point is, he alone was seatbelted.

Funny, I'd an idea this was a yachting forum...haven't you ever heard of metaphors?

Think Quandary and Searush are right, time to ignore you...