classic - yeah yeah

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ghost

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Just been cruising old posts and got into your thoughts on the classic saga.
can you answer this?
Just why are plastic boats so impossibbly un-classic in your view?
 
The Wayward Son is a 51' foot gaff-rigged schooner complete with wooden spars, dead-eyes, traditional red cedar interior, was designed 40+years ago, etc., etc. However, the term " Classic Ferro-Cement Yacht" seems to be more effective at silencing a crowded room than it is at describing my boat. So, as far as stigmas go, I'd have to say that plastic boat owners have it easy.

Little known fact: Cement boats have been built since the early 1800s.
 
interesting........
how is the hull holding out, does it require much in the way of maintenance, does it flake ?
 
The hull is in fantastic condition. It was professionally plastered and steam cured over several days. The builder (deceased since '99) used a mix of silica sand and portland which was slump tested. The armature was also surveyed prior to plastering (I have the survey complete with photos).

The ship was launched in 1982. We found it after the builder had died in a dry yard where it had sat derilict since he had been diagnosed with cancer and bought it from his son. We then spent a year doing a re-fit and relaunched Aug. 2001. We have her hauled out right now for maintenance, and even after being on a reef on two seperate occasions, there in nary a scratch on the hull. However, there is a spot near the bottom of the bildge about half the size of a bank note that is slightly chalky due to diesel penetration that is getting some minor attention.

If you have any other questions, I'd be glad to answer them!

100%5F0228.JPG
 
been on the rocks twice eh, with no significant damage -result
I bet the momentum she carries is scary no?
is she like a re - bar frame then covered in 'crete like a modern high rise building?
Have you even gone submarine in big seas and been worried?
 
We are only 15.5 tons. The hull is about 1" most places and 1.25" at points neccessary as per the design. Ballast is then poured where required. It is essentially built on the same principle as GRP only substitute the glass mesh with wire mesh and the epoxy with cement. And yes, there are re-bar frames structuring much of the hull, decks, and hatbox dividers.

As far as momentum and submarining are concerned, I assume you are basing that on the fact that cement sinks. Steel also sinks, yet they make boats out of steel.

The thing to also remember is that this boat was designed to be made of this material and was not made of this as a cost alternative to a different construction method which would skew the weight to size ratio.

Note-The boat next to mine in the photo is also cement.
 
Re: Weird question, imho

I'm guessing your referring to the submarining Q?
Well, lighter and less lengthy boats bob around on the surface in fair sized but steep seas, a long and heavy boat such as this would take longer to 'pop' up - not suggesting she's a wallowing bucket, just so heavy compared to a similar sized boat of wood or steel or plastic - through the back of larger waves.
I have no experience of boats this solid - just inquisitive.
 
Re: Weird question, imho

Actually, I was considering your initial question:
"Just why are plastic boats so impossibbly un-classic in your view?"
I didn't want to restart the hackneyed debate about what "classic" is all about.
On the other hand, rather than asking "why not", could you see any good reason "why yes"?...
...personally, I can't.
 
Re: Weird question, imho

[ QUOTE ]
...not suggesting she's a wallowing bucket, just so heavy compared to a similar sized boat of wood or steel or plastic - through the back of larger waves.
I have no experience of boats this solid - just inquisitive.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said earlier, she is 15.5 tons. This, for a 51' schooner with a bildge keel, is quite comparable to a boat of the materials you mentioned. And no, the boat isn't solid cement poured in a mold (I know this is not what you meant by solid). The contruction method is, as I said, similar in principle to fibre-glass.

Your inquiries are most welcome. There are alot of myths and falacies out there regarding this type of construction. You may find this site interesting - ferroboats.com
 
Re: Weird question, imho

Having just begun construction of a 40 ft. Colin Archer in ferro, I was greatly cheered to read your comments on ferro. Leaving aside the question of Classic or non-classic ( I agree that ferro boats have been around long enough, but apart from that have no opinion), I am regularly amazed by the number of people who think that ferro boats, in spite of the laws of physics, won't float. I also find repeated analogies with reinforced concrete buildings, when a moment's glance at the literature shows it to be an entirely different technique. I have even met people who think that ferro boats simply can't exist; a bit like arguing the existence of god! Perhaps it should be called "cement-reinforced steel" or something of the kind, to describe it more accurately. Most contemporary ferro boats are so good they look like plastic from the outside, so don't do much raise awareness. Besides, ferro sailors are often halfway round the world in their incredibly strong and seaworthy boats, so aren't available to contribute to this forum!
 
Re: Scuse my ignorance..

Below around 35 ft it is difficult to make a ferro boat as light as other forms of construction so only heavy-displacement hulls are possible. Above 45 ft they can be lighter than e.g. steel or wood.

The biggest downside is people's perception of ferro, generated not so much from ignorance of physics as from a rash of poor amateur examples in the 70s. Resale values are low in the UK but if you sail one to Aus/NZ you'll get a fairer price.
 
Re: Scuse my ignorance..

[ QUOTE ]
...are there any downsides to this method of construction?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes there are. The method is not practical for boats less than about 32', so you have to be prepared to rig a fairly large boat which offsets the savings in the hull's construction. It was the lure of this "build big for cheap" mentality in the 70's that lead to so many unfinished boats around here. The amateur builder would make a 50 or 60 foot hull for around $5,000 only to discover he needs another $90,000 to $100,000 to fit it out. It is this reason that for every good cement boat there is, you'll find three more poor examples sitting derelict in a yard.

Another downside was due to poor contruction method being used by the backyard builder, resulting in poor hull density, weakness, overweight or just plain wavey hulls. These boats were suseptable to damage unforseen by the surveyor (as these boats are difficult to survey) and after a few insurance claims a stigma was attatched to the construction rather than the builder making it hard to find an underwriter. Our boat was surveyed when it was still an armature prior to plastering and then again after it was steam-cured. Having documentation and history is important.

The plusses include easy maintenance, durability, and security of never having to wonder how your keel bolts are doing.

Keep in mind that this is a very breif lesson as there are many more topics regarding these boats.
 
Ferro-Cement Houseboat-tastic

I have a dream to design and build a static houseboat, and as far as I can tell, ferro-cement seems the ideal construction method - inexpensive for size, heavy enough for decent stability, and relatively easy for the amateur designer and builder to express themselves. I would probably ask a professional to lay it up, though...

/<
 
Re: just another quicky

Thanks for the replies.

Is the deck, coachroof and other fiddly bits, like say cockpit moulding, usually made out of ferro as well. Or is it grp or wooden?
 
Re: just another quicky

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the replies.

Is the deck, coachroof and other fiddly bits, like say cockpit moulding, usually made out of ferro as well. Or is it grp or wooden?

[/ QUOTE ]

The forward deck and the catwalks between the toerails and superstructures are part of the monocoque and are therefore ferro-cement as well. The superstructure is glass over ply but can be made out of aluminium, wood or whatever the designer has engineered. Again, I must say, that straying from the recommended design and methods is risky to say the least.
 
Re: just another quicky

Its great to read a reasoned debate on ferro for a change! All of the comments made above I would agree with,especially the difficulty of surveying a hull. For this reason I have decided not only to build my own but to have it properly surveyed at each stage. I also agree with the remarks on deck construction, which for greatest strength should be in ferro and integral with the hull. However, I have decided to build only a large beam shelf in ferro and construct the deck in wood, since I want a laid deck and am unhappy about glueing wood planks to ferro. Absloutely true also, about too-large hulls being built; there is a 65 ft hull, all steelwork finished but not yet plastered, in Faversham for sale at £3000, a bargain if you have the money to complete... the other thing to say about ferro building is that it takes a long time, but possibly not that much longer than any other material. In my case I wanted a Colin Archer in a strong and durable material, and since I would have to pay at least £150,000 for such a boat, I have no alternative but to build. Besides, it is something I have always wanted to do!
 
Re: Ferro-Cement Houseboat-tastic

Yacht surveyor Tony Tucker (details at YBDSA website) is the man to speak to- he is currently involved in such a houseboat project on the Thames.
 
Purely out if interest, I'm not about to build one myself, does the cement mix have any polymers added to make it a waterproof medium. I'm comparing it in my mind to re-inforced concrete used in motorways bridges and tower-blocks which usually, if they had less than 4" coverage of the re-inforcement , and weren't correctly built, would suffer from water ingress, corrosion of the rebars and spalling of the concrete surface.

I know Sika Inertol made a lot of epoxy repair materials for these problems.
 
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