Classic Looking, ?Twin Keeler ?GRP suitable for slow circum nav UK

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ShinyShoe

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I recently opened a thread on the PBO board. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?446741-Could-a-Cornish-Crabber-32-be-ideal-for-me - things ran nicely for a while but revolved into a mixture of:

- Cornish Crabber bashing
- My boat is better than you boat shouting
- People saying my circumnavigation plan wont work on the whole because varnish will fall off the wood work if I travel more than 100 miles from the boat due to some unheard of curse :confused:

So it was suggested I move the discussion here. Not to discuss the Cornish Crabber but to explore:

Is there a particular boat or boats that :
  • At least look traditional. Probably Gaff rigged.
  • Probably inboard engine
  • Accommodation for 4 people
  • Able to easily take the bottom on an unknown mooring/harbour
  • Suitable for a slow circum-navigation of the UK over several years with the boat being left for several weeks between legs
  • Constructed in such a way that I'm not going to worry the first time the wind picks up and I'm 400 miles from the boat that the boat will sink from that dribbly plank...
 
Perhaps you are looking for a Rossiter Pintail. Never sailed one, so I cannot really comment, but they match your description on looks, and appear to be fairly robust. There are a variety of rigs. Bermudan ones look better IMHO.

eg http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boats.phtml?id=2528&mi=15734

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Not sure what size you are looking for but a Westerley 22 might suit? Roomy for the size and lots made with a gunter rig - doesn't sail as well as the Bermudan version.
 
PeteCooper said:
Not sure what size you are looking for but a Westerley 22 might suit? Roomy for the size and lots made with a gunter rig - doesn't sail as well as the Bermudan version.
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+1 always liked the look of them.. solid too... I'd throw Centaur into the pot but they don't hit any of the "traditional" tags! :D

I have always liked these boats though.. if I ever won the lottery I'd go for the 22 like a shot but the bigger boat might well meet your requirements better??

http://www.fisherboatcompany.com/yarmouthyachts.html
 
I suppose that "traditional looking" and "twin keeler" are perhaps two phrases that do not sit well together.
 
Well, it's a triple keeler - one traditional ballast keel and two bilge keels with no righting movement but to act as stabilisers on the mud and provide a little more sideways hold on the water. Triple keelers do fit into my idea of possible classics - I used to own a 24 foot Maurice Griffiths triple keeler and it was as very slow and very stable boat at sea but could also creep up the creeks.

Any boat can be left for weeks in a marina or on a proper buoy and almost no boat can be left anchored or in a harbour alongside other boats for too long unattended , so don't think that criteria should make for a choice of boat. For a slow circumnavigation, always waiting for good weather then no problem again with almost any sound boat, but if you want to be able to punch into bad weather or do longer overnight passages then as big as you can afford to maintain well would be my suggestion, with the 22 footer very much at the lower end for carefully chosen day sails, and only an occasional overnighter when the forecast allows.
 
As I suggested on your other thread there are very few boats that get anywhere near your spec. Gaff rig had gone out of fashion long before twin keels came in so can't think of any boats of size bigger than the old Westerly already suggested that have that combination.

There are, of course plenty of twin keel (and a few drop keel) boats that will be excellent for your project, but if you want anything with a traditional feel you have seen just about all of the candidates other than possibly one offs. The Rossiter boats (27 and 32) are good choices and I think one or two 27 may have had gaff rig - and some have tan coloured sails! However, the most common "traditional" shallow draft boats are those designed by Maurice Griffiths, many of which had triple keels. I have already suggested the Golden Hind 31 and the newer (1980's) ones would be a good choice with GRP hulls and epoxy sheathed tops. Really tough boats with impeccable ocean wandering credentials. Out of fashion, so not expensive and usually around 10 on the market at any one time. Most of his other designs were built in wood and are getting very old now. Other suggestions from the same designer are the Barbican 33, either triple keel or centreboard and Lone Gull 11 which is 28' and some were built in GRP.

If it is character and gaff rig you want with shallow draft and ability to dry than the CC Pilot 30 is as close as you can get, and like the GH can be bought for reasonable money as they have been around for many years.

Think you have to accept that the sort of boat you think you might like does not really exist because there are few people who want such impractical (comparatively!) things, and low demand equals high cost for those who are prepared to buy new. Personally having had a Griffiths boat since 1980 (and built in 1963) I would love to have a new one in similar style. However, as you saw with the new CC32, a well equipped boat to the same standard as the new boat I actually bought recently is nearly double the price. Those prepared to pay such a premium are rare!
 
At one time many people cruised and left their boats in the c\re of a local boatman whilst they returned home by rail.........unfortunatly the rail system is not so extensive but there are marinas to moor up in but not many boatmen.A MACWESTER 27 BILGE KEELER would suit you apparently they perform better than the 26 footer and say with brown sails and a dark painted hull look quite oldey
 
I guess my only contribution is to question why bilge keeler? There are plenty of older long keeled boats that will be good at sea and sturdy enough to sit happily on a mooring happily - because when they were designed and built, that's what people did (i.e no marinas).

Personally, I would go wooden, just because I like wooden and about 25 foot if you wanted to keep costs down - but you could go for something like a Nic 32 if you wanted more space / comfort and I think they did both wooden and GRP versions.
 
PhillM said:
......you could go for something like a Nic 32 if you wanted more space / comfort and I think they did both wooden and GRP versions.
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Only GRP, although in Australia they did make a very few wooden ones, but none but made it to over here. Having owned one for 20 years, they do make comfy cruising boats for 2-3 up. You can get a very nice one of the later marks for around £20K.
 
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Wansworth said:
At one time many people cruised and left their boats in the c\re of a local boatman whilst they returned home by rail.........unfortunatly the rail system is not so extensive but there are marinas to moor up in but not many boatmen.
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You've been reading Maurice Griffiths?:o

First train from Liverpool Street after the office closes; kippers for dinner whilst anchored in a quiet swatch way ........
 
parsifal said:
8

You've been reading Maurice Griffiths?:o

First train from Liverpool Street after the office closes; kippers for dinner whilst anchored in a quiet swatch way ........
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Well yes but I knew a woman who now deceased did in fact cruise between railway ports.... very elegant especially the boatman...... alas gone I fear.
 
PhillM said:
I guess my only contribution is to question why bilge keeler? There are plenty of older long keeled boats that will be good at sea and sturdy enough to sit happily on a mooring happily - because when they were designed and built, that's what people did (i.e no marinas).
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Perhaps thats my lack of knowledge of keels -- I've always understood a twin keeler was designed to take to the ground in a drying berth. When I say twin keeler I meant multi-keeler it could be two or three...

I've seen a few long keelers in proper muddy harbours take the mud reasonably well. But I may be arriving in an unknown harbour over unknown ground and leaving before the tide is out to catch a train home. Then not returning for a month so various weather, various tides, something like 60 times to land on the bottom differently. Each time risking landing badly and not having someone handy who might sort any issues. I've seen lots of photos of long keelers ashore with legs. Legs can of course be used on mud but it has "hassle" written all over it. Am I wrong?

Personally, I would go wooden, just because I like wooden and about 25 foot if you wanted to keep costs down
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I love wooden too. Preferably other people's wooden. Would be worried about leaks on an unattended boat.
 
Minchsailor said:
My parents used to sail in the area in the 1930s. The railway company then did a weekend yachtsman's return ticket - out to one destination on the Friday evening, back from another on the Sunday.
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Sounds perfect. I might write to virgin an suggest it ;-)

Looking at the beeching map while he made a pigs ear of the suburban type routes he did not too bad a job of leaving lines that go to the sea...

640_beeching-map.jpg


West Coast of Scotland would be my preferred play area. I'd quite happily have the boat there for a year alone at least. Could someone just nip off and lay a few more railway lines for me...
 
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