Choice of Electronics for new boat.

anniebray

Member
Joined
8 Nov 2006
Messages
388
Location
Marchwood, UK
Visit site
We have a Sadler 290 on order for delivery next year & we are anxious to firm up our specification. We want to have all our nav equipment in the cockpit with perhaps a repeater at the Nav table for basic information. Our wish list as follows, mostly Raymarine manufacture we thought:
C80 or C120 multifunction display. Flush fitted to the cockpit fwd bulkhead, largest possible fit we thought.
RD18 Radar (mast fitted)
Raystar 125 GPS module
ST60 instruments (Depth, Log, Wind) to iinstr
ST60 Graphic Display below ? (Depth,Log,Wind, GPS)
S1 Plus Tiller Pilot (able to link with GPS or Wind)
VHF with DSC & Cockpit remote
Fluxgate compass for Radar overlay ??
We would be grateful for the team's views on our choices & welcome all advice.
 

davidwf

Active member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
1,259
Location
East Coast, Woolverstone
Visit site
For the instruments would look at Nexus from Silva as it uses a wireless wind transducer (like Tack Tick) which saves one cable down the mast.

On my Dufour 34, 4 years ago I specified a full raymarine system only to discover that not all Raymarine kit talks the same version of Seatalk, ie Waypoints from the plotter displayed as WP001 on the autopilot display not as abrieviated names. This was a real irritant as if you ask someone to go below and select a waypoint you are never sure what they have selected. Ryamarine gave me a multifuction display after I complained at the boat show, the multifunction display correctly interpreted the waypoint name.

The supplier caught a real cold as the installation (fixed Price) took 5 days due to difficulty pulling in the cables. So go fixed price whatever you do. Oh and make sure they uses the conduit in the mast I caught them dangling the radar cable down the mast outside the conduit.
 

pvb

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
45,602
Location
UK East Coast
Visit site
Viewing angle...

I know that the Sadler 290 promotional photos show a bulkhead-mounted C-series display, but it might be worth checking just how satisfactory this is in use. My C120 is quite sensitive to viewing angle, and I have it mounted under the sprayhood, angled towards the centre of the cockpit. An additional potential problem is that the Sadler bulkhead slopes, so the display may suffer from more sky reflection than you want. Otherwise, go for the C120 if you can fit it in; not only is the display twice the size but the resolution is much better too.
 

pampas

New member
Joined
17 Jul 2003
Messages
1,945
Location
Falmouth
Visit site
Nows the chance to have some spare switches and fusedsinstalled for future use. Best of luck with the new vessel, happy days yet to come.
 

tome

New member
Joined
28 Mar 2002
Messages
8,201
Location
kprick
www.google.co.uk
Couple of (expensive) thoughts

If your budget will stretch go for the E series over the C series. Much better viewing angle and truly sunlight readable, plus you could network a second display at the chart table if you decide to later (we have done this with a smaller E80)

I would avoid the Raymarine GPS and go for a good basic Garmin. This is what we've done and it is good to have an independent GPS with waypoint guidance which doesn't require the plotter even to be switched on. All our waypoints are entered directly into the GPS and appear on the chartplotter via a NMEA/Seatalk bridge

You don't mention AIS but this is worth considering - it's very useful on channel hops etc but the Raymarine one is almost £600. It does have the advantage that you can also connect a fast heading sensor - essential if you want to use the MARPA radar function in anger. The standard fluxgate compass from Raymarine (comes with the S1 plus) is nowhere near fast enough for this
 

homa

Member
Joined
12 May 2002
Messages
863
Location
Suffolk
Visit site
All I would add to your spec is go for the S1G autopilot.
This has the rate gyro - costs a bit more but will steer a better course and will interface much better with the Radar for MARPA.
Check with Raymarine - but I'm sure they recommend a Rate Gyro for the heading input and a radar with automatic plotting.
 

pvb

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
45,602
Location
UK East Coast
Visit site
Tiller pilot...

[ QUOTE ]
All I would add to your spec is go for the S1G autopilot.
This has the rate gyro - costs a bit more but will steer a better course and will interface much better with the Radar for MARPA.
Check with Raymarine - but I'm sure they recommend a Rate Gyro for the heading input and a radar with automatic plotting.

[/ QUOTE ]The S1 Plus originally proposed is a tiller pilot - don't think there's a "G" version of those. You're thinking of the inboard pilots. However, adding a Smart Heading Sensor would achieve the same result.
 
M

maxwell edison

Guest
My wife and I also have a 290 on order for next year and the current thinking for navigation equipment is very similar to yours.

I would be interested to know what battery set up you have specified.
 
Joined
27 May 2002
Messages
11,172
Visit site
[ QUOTE ]
C80 or C120 multifunction display. Flush fitted to the cockpit fwd bulkhead, largest possible fit we thought.

[/ QUOTE ]
These units are quite deep and the E series even more so, have you considered the disruption to internal carpentry?

I also echo Tome’s comment about better E series screens, I have a small 3.5” Raymarine colour plotter mounted at the helm and it is surprising how often I have to cup a hand over the unit to see detail in strong sunlight. Less of an issue for you I suppose given shading from a sprayhood.
 
Joined
27 May 2002
Messages
11,172
Visit site
Re: Viewing angle...

[ QUOTE ]
Otherwise, go for the C120 if you can fit it in; not only is the display twice the size

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you find the backlight from such a large screen an issue during night sailing?

I find even with my helm-mounted 3.5" colour plotter screen I have to turn the backlight completely off during night sailing. The lowest backlight setting projects too much glare.
 

pvb

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
45,602
Location
UK East Coast
Visit site
Re: Viewing angle...

[ QUOTE ]
Do you find the backlight from such a large screen an issue during night sailing?

[/ QUOTE ]No, the C-series backlighting can be turned right down, and it also has a "Night palette" colour setting which some people find easier to use. Unlike your RC400, though, it retains its backlight setting when it's next turned on, so you have to remember to turn up the backlight before turning the set off at night, otherwise you can't see anything on the screen the next day!
 
Joined
27 May 2002
Messages
11,172
Visit site
Re: Viewing angle...

RC400, that's the one. Great little gadget providing it is hooked up to external boat power most of the time. Now that it is mounted next to the helm it has made my pilotage safer, but the combined affect of 4 autohelm square displays, deck level nav lights and the colour plotter can blind me at night particularly when there is moisture in the air. Sometimes I resort to turning it all off and sail under a single masthead light in order to obtain a better picture of what is around me.

Which reminds me I need to wrap some black tape on sections of the pullpit to reduce red and green glare reflected back at the helmsman, does black cloth cycle handlebar tape work?
 

jwilson

Well-known member
Joined
22 Jul 2006
Messages
6,135
Visit site
Raymarine C-series not that great in daylight. Newer Garmins better. I agree however that the place for a plotter display is in the cockpit.
 

Oldhand

New member
Joined
21 Feb 2002
Messages
1,805
Location
UK, S.Coast
Visit site
I think your proposal is fine but I would be concerned about having to cut a hole big enough to fit C-120 in the forward cockpit bulkhead for a couple of reasons.

One is if the unit has to be removed for repair, you not only have a big hole to fill up and make weather-proof but it could comprimise hatch security if an internal latch can be reached from the hole. Secondly, and I don't know the geometery of the boat, but many yachts have winches mounted at the aft end of the coachroof, in which case you need to think about any structural compromise of putting such a large hole anywhere near a winch. Possible internal disruption has already mentioned so I guess the only other thing is can you keep coachroof halyard tails etc clear of the display conveniently?

Radar with high speed heading input can be used more accurately for collision avoidance, even if you don't use an overlay mode or ARPA. This is well worth considering in terms of your autopilot installation, which itself is likely to perform better with a "rate gyro" enhanced compass input.
 

pvb

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
45,602
Location
UK East Coast
Visit site
No apparent structural problem...

If you look at these photos on the Sadler 290 website, you'll see examples of what I assume are factory-fitted C70/C80 units in the bulkhead. Can't imagine the builders would chop big holes if there was a structural problem, and the bulkhead backs on to the aft cabin so there isn't a problem with hatch security. However, it doesn't look as if there's enough space for a C120.
 

Twister_Ken

Well-known member
Joined
31 May 2001
Messages
27,584
Location
'ang on a mo, I'll just take some bearings
Visit site
Re: No apparent structural problem...

Put the plotter on an arm that swings out from the interior into the companionway?

Advantages - use it indoors or out. Will be more in shade so daylight viz problem reduced. Not exposed to thievery when parked. Won't be angled up so sky reflection problem diminished.

PS - congrats on choosing the 290 - I reckon it's a cracking little boat!
 

tome

New member
Joined
28 Mar 2002
Messages
8,201
Location
kprick
www.google.co.uk
Re: No apparent structural problem...

The E series is considerably deeper than the C series so may need to check there is still sufficient depth

We initially fitted an E80 but swmbo and I decided it was a bit too small to read comfortably from the helm during our trip to Ireland last year
E80_1.JPG

so we replaced it with an E120 which is much better. I wouldn't be happy bulkhead fitting it so ours is under the sprayhood and easily removable via a single bulkhead connector
Radar_E120.JPG
 

anniebray

Member
Joined
8 Nov 2006
Messages
388
Location
Marchwood, UK
Visit site
Thanks to all who replied, its certainly been worthwhile for me.
I intended to put AIS on my list but forgot. I wonder if the budget priced NASA wld be okay or maybe not talk properly with the Raymarine stuff. Structural integrity & light problems are making me think about mounting the display on a pedestal under the canopy. I see that Tome has somehow managed to do this presummably avoiding the reefing pennants etc.
Thank you all ! But further comments are welcome.
 

tome

New member
Joined
28 Mar 2002
Messages
8,201
Location
kprick
www.google.co.uk
We have intermittent problems with the NASA AIS and wouldn't recommend it (unless using it with a PC)

There is only 1 NMEA input to the C or E series, and the NASA AIS hogs it so we cannot also interface a fast heading sensor. The Seatalk interface will only pass headings at 2Hz so that isn't an option for MARPA

The Raymarine AIS unit has a multiplexor built in (plus other features) which will allow us to feed both fast heading and the AIS into the plotter
 
Top