Cheap, cheerful and warm Wintering

[12 Year Plan B-)]

I am sure that this topic has been covered before, but times (and taxes) change!

My first inclination was to Winter in the Canaries, but I read somewhere that the Spanish authorities are intent on making this less attractive by banning anchoring anywhere and everywhere around the islands and by screwing anybody who stays too long (with hefty bills based on the value of their ship)???

Cost is my main concern. I thought maybe Portugal, Greece, Turkey or Italy? Secure hard standing would be a bonus (but only if they let you stay aboard whilst dry, too). I am not fussed about transport links or buzzing nightlife, but a good supermarket in walking distance would be useful.

Might you other live aboard forumites post with details of costs? You never know: the Marinameisters might be watching...we could start a price war...

I am 29' loa.

 

[PlanB]

You need to look at winter temperatures in the Med. The only really reliably warm, and mostly dry, places are southern Portugal and southern Spain.
The Spanish tax position has been covered at length on here, but is generally only a problem if you yourself are in the country for more than 183 days. Boat can be there all year.
Don't know if the Canaries have special rules.

 

[GrahamM376]

A problem with southern Spain is that many marinas don't allow sleeping on board when on the hard and some won't even let you work on the boat.

Algarve enjoys mainly good temperatures in winter but can be wet and windy at times. Living aboard in yards not a problem but, if you don't need to haul out, it can be cheaper to stay in the water over winter. One excellent yard - www.navepegos.com - prices listed are out of date though,

 

[jimbaerselman]

Cost is my main concern. I thought maybe Portugal, Greece, Turkey or Italy? Secure hard standing would be a bonus (but only if they let you stay aboard whilst dry, too). I am not fussed about transport links or buzzing nightlife, but a good supermarket in walking distance would be useful.

Might you other live aboard forumites post with details of costs?
I am 29' loa.

Warm/sunny places:

Almeria, S Spain (in the weather shadow of the Sierra Nevada, plenty of live-aboards) and nearby locations
Tunisia, Djerba (It's a winter sun holiday resort, but not many boats winter there!)
Crete, Agios Nikolaos (nice group of live-aboards)
Cyprus - if you can find space

But there are many more options, as long as you stay in the more southern locations. Delightful towns for wintering are Cartagena and Cagliari, while Ragusa, in Sicily, is also a popular live aboard spot.

Lagos, Portugal, which has a big ex-pat British community in addition to a lot of sailors, is a popular base for many boats. But the water is rather cooler and rain a little more frequent.

As already mentioned, very few places allow people to live aboard on the hard. In Spain, if you or your boat stay there for more than 6 months per calendar year, you're suddenly liable to conform with a number of conditions as a Spanish resident. Get local advice if that's your intention.

For descriptions of those places, and links to their web sites, and descriptions which help you decide where and when to base in the Med, try www.jimbsail.info/mediterranean (or just Google "JimB" - that'll take you to the site), and drill down through the menus to the various locations. The opinions there were originally mine, but tempered over the years by many inputs from a variety of blogs, fora and comments from web site users. Where web sites are known for the various places, they're listed. But price lists are often a year or two out of date, so emails will be in order to get your own quotes.

Lots of people will advise you on their favourite locations. You only mentioned cost and warmth and cheerful - so that's all I've responded to.

 

[nortada]

A problem with southern Spain is that many marinas don't allow sleeping on board when on the hard and some won't even let you work on the boat.

Algarve enjoys mainly good temperatures in winter but can be wet and windy at times. Living aboard in yards not a problem but, if you don't need to haul out, it can be cheaper to stay in the water over winter. One excellent yard - www.navepegos.com - prices listed are out of date though,

Any of the Algarve Marinas could fit your bill & Graham is right in saying it is just as cheap to stay in the water as get hauled out & sailing in the Algarve in winter is much more comfortable than sailing in the UK in summer.

From experience, even though its permitted, very few people like spending extended periods on board on the hard - life is much easier afloat!

Unlike the UK, you can negotiate & contract to match your circumstances.

Additionally, if required, air travel between the UK & Faro is quick, easy & cheap.

 

[tcm]

I am sure that this topic has been covered before, but times (and taxes) change!

My first inclination was to Winter in the Canaries, but I read somewhere that the Spanish authorities are intent on making this less attractive by banning anchoring anywhere and everywhere around the islands and by screwing anybody who stays too long (with hefty bills based on the value of their ship)???

Cost is my main concern. I thought maybe Portugal, Greece, Turkey or Italy? Secure hard standing would be a bonus (but only if they let you stay aboard whilst dry, too). I am not fussed about transport links or buzzing nightlife, but a good supermarket in walking distance would be useful.

Might you other live aboard forumites post with details of costs? You never know: the Marinameisters might be watching...we could start a price war...

I am 29' loa.

Portimao might fit your requirements. I know several people who have wintered there repeatedly ... but my information is secondhand, not stayed there a long time myself.

 

[nortada]

Portimao might fit your requirements. I know several people who have wintered there repeatedly ... but my information is secondhand, not stayed there a long time myself.

Haul out at Portimao is feasible but it is on the wrong sjde of the river from the town.

The marina is popular but can suffer in bad weather. Last winter the fuel pontoon got trashed.

Of the 2 I would favour Lagos Marina as the city is closer, it doesn't close up for the winter & the marina is totally protected from the weather.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Cheap, cheerfully and warm MMmmm well it getting harder to find all three , each year more and more laws and rule , Spain have it tax rules Turkey it residence laws canaries anchoring regs , Gib seen to be running out of room , Sicily Licata and Ragusa both have reasonable winter rates but to get hauled out it very expense and you can't stay on the boat
and god know what going to happen in Greece plus it can be very wet , I suppose Almerimar is as good as it get , it warm thought most of the winter you can stay on the boat on the hard for a set time and you can work on the boat also cheap flight back home .

I would rather live in the water then on the hard any day , more people brake bones climbing up and down ladders and it no fun up in the air .
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

 

[RAI]

My first inclination was to Winter in the Canaries, but I read somewhere that the Spanish authorities are intent on making this less attractive by banning anchoring anywhere and everywhere around the islands and by screwing anybody who stays too long (with hefty bills based on the value of their ship)???

Don' t abandon the Canaries for those reasons, Anchoring is not forbidden, it is however uncomfortable because of the Atlantic swell. After about 10 or 12 years, they might get round to imposing a matriculation sort of tax, but if you are only overwintering, that is not an issue. Otherwise there's just odd local expenses/habits. like Las Palmas marina, Gran Canaria, chucking out the short term liveaboards for October/November, to make room for the ARC. Even then, a lot anchor in the bay just outside or sail off to other marinas. The Canaries' marinas are generally cheaper than the Algarve' s. Most post their tariffs on the their websites and give big discounts for 6 month stays.

 

[tcm]

Cheap cheerful ands warm = caribbean. Check the sea temperatures - solid 28 degrees year round. Hence air temperatures about that too, day and night. Unllike the med or even the canaries. No need to join there ARC - just tag along behind them if the weather looks reasonable for the start (cos sometimes it isn't) . 29 ft is fine for a transit - i know a guy who crosses twice a year in a 28footer.

 

[12 Year Plan B-)]

Great response! Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge and experiences. I am warming (!) to the idea of Portugal, Sicily or Greece.

Wishing you all fair winds.

p.s. great site JimB. Keep up the good work!

 

[GrahamM376]

Great response! Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge and experiences. I am warming (!) to the idea of Portugal, Sicily or Greece.

Wishing you all fair winds.

p.s. great site JimB. Keep up the good work!

One point to consider, if you will need to fly back to UK then check out winter schedules and costs for the various locations, could be as much as £200 difference in fares.

 

[david100952]

I am considering liveaboard next year as I am 62 and recently redundant. My wife retires in April '15 and we will need to live on a VERY modest pension. I am thinking of going down through the canals to the Med rather than trying to make pennies stretch to a boat and a rented house in the UK but the big questions remain. Will it be warm enough to stay on the boat year round in the Med and how much £ do we need to survive per month?

 

[GrahamM376]

I am considering liveaboard next year as I am 62 and recently redundant. My wife retires in April '15 and we will need to live on a VERY modest pension. I am thinking of going down through the canals to the Med rather than trying to make pennies stretch to a boat and a rented house in the UK but the big questions remain. Will it be warm enough to stay on the boat year round in the Med and how much £ do we need to survive per month?

The Med is a big place with prices and weather varying between east and west. There are lots of past threads on this subject and opinions about cost start at around £500 per month (very hard to achieve unless excluding cost of ongoing boat maintenance and replacements) and a couple of thousand pounds. Do you intend to anchor or live in marinas, do your own maintenance etc.?

 

[12 Year Plan B-)]

I am considering liveaboard next year as I am 62 and recently redundant. My wife retires in April '15 and we will need to live on a VERY modest pension. I am thinking of going down through the canals to the Med rather than trying to make pennies stretch to a boat and a rented house in the UK but the big questions remain. Will it be warm enough to stay on the boat year round in the Med and how much £ do we need to survive per month?

I've been comparing prices, Graham: the cheapest I found was Port Yasmine, Hammamet. Tunisia is said to be a 'year round' destination. You might want to learn some French or Arabic if you want to mix with the the locals. My guess is that the resort/town is very limited - geographically, in terms of facilities and things to do. Walk a few miles from the marina in any direction and you'd be in the desert! Here's the link to their tariff:

http://www.portyasmine.com.tn/en/location/prix.asp#this

 

[GrahamM376]

I've been comparing prices, Graham: the cheapest I found was Port Yasmine, Hammamet. Tunisia is said to be a 'year round' destination. You might want to learn some French or Arabic if you want to mix with the the locals. My guess is that the resort/town is very limited - geographically, in terms of facilities and things to do. Walk a few miles from the marina in any direction and you'd be in the desert! Here's the link to their tariff:

http://www.portyasmine.com.tn/en/location/prix.asp#this

I give N Africa a miss except for the occasional visit to Ceuta. Algarve winter weather suits me fine and have free mooring

 

[rustybarge]

I am considering liveaboard next year as I am 62 and recently redundant. My wife retires in April '15 and we will need to live on a VERY modest pension. I am thinking of going down through the canals to the Med rather than trying to make pennies stretch to a boat and a rented house in the UK but the big questions remain. Will it be warm enough to stay on the boat year round in the Med and how much £ do we need to survive per month?

The grocery prices in the S of F are a little bit more than the Uk; say +10%, but wine is cheaper.
a few years ago France was 50% cheaper, so there has been rapid price inflation since the mid noughties.

Now the French economy is stagnating so supermarket prices are actually falling in real terms; good news for livaboards, and in the medium term the euro looks doomed so your £ will buy more.

Overall you will probably get away with a similar standard of living to the uk if you buy all your veg from the weekly farmers market, and all the meat and other stuff from the supermarket.


go for it, but remember you must speak a little bit of French to get a warm welcome in France, and the French are a deeply traditional race when it comes to manners, meals and the rituals that surround their Gallic culture: there is no leeway allowed in these serious matters, esp if you're British!

 

[david100952]

The Med is a big place with prices and weather varying between east and west. There are lots of past threads on this subject and opinions about cost start at around £500 per month (very hard to achieve unless excluding cost of ongoing boat maintenance and replacements) and a couple of thousand pounds. Do you intend to anchor or live in marinas, do your own maintenance etc.?

The basic overview would be "shoestring economy"! I am pretty adept mechanically and can perform any GRP work myself so rigging would be the only buy in maintenance. Would be happy to spend most of the time at anchor (with sporadic visits to marinas to keep SWMBO sane and beautiful) if venues permit doing so which is part of the query - how feasible is it to find anchorages while hopping along the coast. I imagine that I would be doing the French canals on route as I have a friend who has just come back from a 2 1/2 year stint on a Dutch barge so I have advice that far. It looks like S Spain or the Algarve offer the only reasonable winter temperatures without crossing so that may be my option but my wife needs convincing it is feasible on an initial budget of £500-£600 pcm plus contingency fund.

 

[sailaboutvic]

The basic overview would be "shoestring economy"! I am pretty adept mechanically and can perform any GRP work myself so rigging would be the only buy in maintenance. Would be happy to spend most of the time at anchor (with sporadic visits to marinas to keep SWMBO sane and beautiful) if venues permit doing so which is part of the query - how feasible is it to find anchorages while hopping along the coast. I imagine that I would be doing the French canals on route as I have a friend who has just come back from a 2 1/2 year stint on a Dutch barge so I have advice that far. It looks like S Spain or the Algarve offer the only reasonable winter temperatures without crossing so that may be my option but my wife needs convincing it is feasible on an initial budget of £500-£600 pcm plus contingency fund.

Hi David
We been doing this for quite a while now and to be honest 500 to 600 pounds a month is pushing it if you are including things like winter mooring , fuel ,food and repair in this sum .
Since we left our winter marina in March we have spend 30 euros in mooring fee and another 150 euros in a marina in Tunisia while we did some work on the boat . so as you can see we really do anchor most of the year around .
Our food and wine bill comes to about 100 euros a weeks that's not including eating out which we do about once or twice every month , manly because we like eating on board and having friends on board . If you just take a very cheap winter marina you looking at 1200 for a six months that in it self is 100 euros a month , So as you can see just in food and drink and our winter marina , alone we spending almost as much as you are expecting to spend on every thing each PCM .
I would say 350 euros a week if you don't get any really bad problems and that a very min , we don't keep record on what we spend , we did try but we give in but I guess we spend a min of 18000 to 20000 a year all in . That's without any big expenses on the boat . Last winter a new set of sails set us back 6000 pounds .

I don't want to put you off or anyone else off , but anyone who thinks living on a boat is a cheap and easy way of living , is mistaken , we and other like us do it because we love the life we enjoy traveling and meeting people and seeing other country , we don't do it because it cheap way of living .
Each year we see people dreams collapse the two many reason is money and one of the partners find out that the dream isn't a dream but a night mare .
I just hope you and other like you think very carefully before embarking on this wonderfully life we enjoy , it not because we don't want you out here enjoying it with us , but what may be wonderfully to us may be just some thing very different to others .

One very last advise , DONT sell up and sail , well not until you spend some time trying it out first .
Having something to go back to if it goes tits up is very important .

www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

 

[GrahamM376]

The basic overview would be "shoestring economy"! I am pretty adept mechanically and can perform any GRP work myself so rigging would be the only buy in maintenance. Would be happy to spend most of the time at anchor (with sporadic visits to marinas to keep SWMBO sane and beautiful) if venues permit doing so which is part of the query - how feasible is it to find anchorages while hopping along the coast. I imagine that I would be doing the French canals on route as I have a friend who has just come back from a 2 1/2 year stint on a Dutch barge so I have advice that far. It looks like S Spain or the Algarve offer the only reasonable winter temperatures without crossing so that may be my option but my wife needs convincing it is feasible on an initial budget of £500-£600 pcm plus contingency fund.

I'll let someone with more knowledge advise on wintering in southern Spain. Lots of people winter on the Algarve, quite a few at anchor in Ria Formosa or Guadiana river, sometimes moorings are available off Faro at around 125 euro p.m. Food prices DIY or eating out are quite a lot cheaper than UK and so is booze - considerably. There are winter deals in marinas and quite a few boatyards if you need to haul out. With spring tides around 3m range, not many places or time between tides for fin keelers to dry out alongside but no problem antifouling a shallow draught twin keeler on some beaches and slips.

All marinas have English speaking staff so you can phone for prices if not published on-line. Going west to east - Lagos (most popular), Portimao (exposed and often damage to boats in storms) Albufeira (vey safe but a bit of a graveyard in winter) Vilamoura (my thoughts would be censored) On Guadiana estuary - Vila Real (very exposed with strong tidal flow through berths). Spain - Ayamonte (some like it but silting up in places) El Rompido (Spanish holiday town, a bit up market but quiet in winter and a bit out of the way for larger towns and supermarkets) Generally, the further west you are the stronger the winds.

Biggest cost after purchase is going to equipping the boat for hot weather plus large battery banks and means of charging and, heating for winter. Nov - March often tee shirt during the day but nights can drop to 5-6 degrees.