Charts

BrianJ

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For a long offshore voyage.. how do you store your paper charts.?
I hate folds in charts ( also dangerous)
Ok, do you sort into portfolos, then hang them on say a half inch piece of dowl, or just place tthem in a draw or round container ( pvc pipe) ?
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Ships_Cat

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On a CD.

Sorry couldn't resist it Brian, BUT -

While we have nothing long planned at the moment, after several years relying on electronic charts (official ones not the C-Nappy, Navironical, etc ones /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) I believe that instead of buying paper charts I would buy official electronic ones (eg for Australia the Australian Hydrographic Office Seafearer ones, UKHO ARCS, etc) and use the money saved from no paper charts to buy a second notebook as a spare (we already have dual independant DC supplies on the boat). I would carry smallest scale paper planning charts only, for in case of ultimate need but taking up no room at all.

Regards

John
 

BrianJ

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John,
Yes I have the Seafarer demo CD.. thats the one I wold buy if I was going O/S again.... however I am still a bit of a "paper"man...Hence Probably would have both.
Some people like Tony Herrick at www.cruisingconnections.co.za, will sell you second hand charts for say the Indian Ocean, then when you get to Durban ,he will buy them back again... not a bad deal. He also has other charts on offer. Pity the Pacific wasnt covered this way.
Like your idea of a second notebook
When I trace your excursions I do it on another CD setup.. but as I say I like the Seafarer system better.

Cheers
Brian
 

ranga

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Hi Brian,

I store mine folded as they are when purchased in one of those clear plastic chart holders. This then lies flat under a bunk (the wife doesn't complain unless it gets too thick). On a long voyage I place them in the order I will use them and get them out for the days as required and keep them on the chart table.

I also have electronic charts but will ensure that I have the cruising/passage area covered adequately either by paper charts or a pilot book.

Craig
 

Thistle

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Strikes me that a CD is at least as vulnerable as a paper chart and the consequences of damage much greater - possibly losing all your charts instead of just one! How do you guard against this?
 

Ships_Cat

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By keeping backup copies of the CD's (both the charts and the corrections CD's) - that is what I do now.

How do you guard against loss of your paper charts?

John
 
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Chart storage ...

Local art shop sells picture tubes that are assembled in short lengths and you can join as many as you need to get the length required. I have mine at about 20cms longer than a single fold chart ... allows me to drop my 'instrument set in as well' .... but the tube is about 12 - 15cms diameter 0 so holds a lot of rolled charts ... cost was about a tenner .....

Only thing to watch is that you do not leave it closed up too long as the plastic does suffer slight moisture from condensation ... so I take out the charts every so often and flat lay them out to air..... maybe 1 or 2x a year !!

I normally use electronic charts via a 2.5" Hard disk caddy connected to the usb port of the notebook .... more reliable than cd's, capacity as you choose .... I started with using the hard disks that were taken out of my company notebooks when upgrading - shame to waste 'em .... a 3Gb disk holds a lot of charts .... for example. In fact the whole chart system and plotting program can be on that ready to swap from pc to pc .... etc.
I used to use the solid state flash usb sticks .... but they are grossly unreliable and we have had about 50% of them fail in our work .... so they are now consigned to less important work now or where written to once and kept safe in an archive system.

CD's having had so many suffer loss of data or scratches - I no longer trust any CD .... commercial or my own CD-R / CD-rw ... etc. WHY ? Having found out how a CD is recorded, how delicate that system is - it is a wonder that half my collection is still working .... we all thought that DAT tapes were vulnerable - but CD's are worse .....

No for me the hard-drive caddy is about the best way ..... for size, reliability, and sheer speed of reading / writing etc.

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Birdseye

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Re: Chart storage ...

Really interesting comment. Sounds like you certainly know what you're talking about.

Can you expand on the CD reliability a bit. I had thought that they had infinite life apart from physical damage, which can be protected against. And from the one or two that I have tried to dispose of, they seem physically quite tough. And I had thought that hard disks with the tiny head clearance were prone to shock damage even when parked.
 

Mirelle

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Under the saloon bunks

21" x 28", folded as supplied by UKHO - new A0 charts slightly larger.

You can lose a couple of hundred this way, which ought to be enough, surely.

I suggest the traditional canvas folio rather than a plastic one.
 

TigaWave

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Canvas folder under bunk, CD's fail at an alarming rate, it seems to be age as well as climate that effects them, so the hard disk storage of electronic charts is the best option, if you have multiple hard drives.

We made copies of the electronic charts at least every month ensuring that the discs were recent, and protected them from heat and moisture as best we could. Some boats lost nearly all their cd's from some sort of corrossion between the layers.

We would also use a small printer to print off A4 charts at various scales for each passage and put them in A4 plastic sleeves, we actually found these were very good to plot on for a hard copy of position, and also very good as cockpit pilotage charts.

Neil
 

snowleopard

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A chart table big enough to take an unfolded admiralty chart is near the top of my list of requirements in a boat. the top lifts up to reveal a tray for up to around 100 charts. Having said that, admiralty charts are supplied folded (once). I never roll them as it makes them such a pain to use.
 

adelaidem

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how full proof is CD charts with out paper back ups, what if lightning fried all electrical systems on the boat? is this possible?
 

tcm

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an online or shoreside backup would mean he could regenerate using yet another computer. It would have to be one hell of electrical storm before it fried a computer in a box, or indeed perhaps accompanied by a hurrican, at which point the cd's wd not be primary concern.
 

PeterStone

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Re: Chart storage ...

A few years ago I photographed a CD production line and I was surprised at how simply they are made and how obviously fragile the coating is.

Uncoated discs are spun at high speed whilst a small drop of fluid (the reflective coating) drops onto the centre (can't remember what they did about the hole but fluid obviously doesn't fall through it!). The spin of the disc causes the fluid to spread out to the edges of the disc, giving an even thin coating all over, which then dries to a hard finish.

I wince every time I see people manhandle CDs - I think they should be treated as carefully as records even if they are not quite as vulnerable - finger prints on a pristine surface offend my soul!
 

Ships_Cat

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Re: Chart storage ...

Like you, I have also seen CD's being manufactured. Is mesmerising.

We have many hundreds of music CD's in our house some since the first issues of music on CD, plus many CD's with original software on them and never had a failure of any kind.

We have had many CD's (music and software) on our boat for many years and never had a failure. In fact I store my business off site backups on the boat. Have burnt hundreds of CD-R's and can only recall one time when one has died sometime after burning.

Seems some have real bad luck with CD's - I wonder if they really do or are just recounting the manufactured stories of others (or perhaps making them up themselves). Maybe they are just careless?

As for worrying about lightning frazzling computer, etc I completely go along with what TCM says.

I would add that if you are a cruising boat with only one navigator aboard (very common with cruising couples) then I would be quite confident that there is far more chance of the only navigator dying of a heart attack or whatever, than loss of computer through a lightning strike.

In the case of loosing everything electrical then a small scale planning chart will safely get you to a landfall (also remembering you will have to do that without GPS).

John
 

starboard

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I store my Admiralty charts with only one fold, I put them in a large clear plastic art work folder I get from the local art shop for £4.50. Same sort of thing the chandlery sells for £20....!!! I then store them under my berth cushion.

Paul.
 

TigaWave

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Re: Chart storage ...

I've seen it first hand, at least 75% of a collection of over 300 music cd's all had what looked like a worm had eaten its way randomly all over the reflective coating of the cd, between the protective coating.

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it, the boat in question had spent several years in the Caribbean.

Others had one or two disc failures with the same corrosion. I can only think it must be related to heat and humidity.

On electronics failures, I've had two handheld gps's (back ups) fail at the same time when the main fixed unit had some damage to the aerial in a storm so stopped working.

Maybe you've been lucky or perhaps your boat is always warm and dry?
 
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