Charging the batteries a bit less?

prv

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I know, usually we're concerned to get maximum juice into the batteries. But the AGMs I have in mind come with a strict warning not to apply more than 13.8v to them once fully charged, or damage will result. My alternator is specced at 14.2v +/-0.15 (or +/-0.3 without the sense wire), so if I simply connected the alternator to the batteries and then motored to France on a calm day, I'd be doing them no good at all. Given the price of the things, this is not a situation I'm prepared to risk.

For a while it looked like the solution was a Sterling alternator-to-battery charger; Sterling ignored my last email but someone on here told me that the ABC floats at 13.8v regardless of what you put into it.

I phoned Sterling today, to learn that this is incorrect. The ABC is basically a conventional diode splitter plus a "boost" circuit on the domestic leg, after the diode. Once the "boost" program is finished, the clever circuitry switches off and the whole ABC reverts to being a dumb diode splitter. Obviously this will drop some voltage, but the guy on the phone (even after consulting with "the designer", presumably Mr Sterling himself) didn't seem to know exactly how much. He cheerfully opined that it would drop "enough" to keep below the 13.8 even if the alternator's putting in 14.4 - but earlier in the conversation (when he'd mistakenly thought my concern was getting higher voltages, not lower) he'd claimed it "only dropped 0.2 or 0.3", so it sounds like he was telling me whatever he thought I wanted to hear and I don't have much confidence in him.

I've emailed Sterling again, recapping our conversation, clearly setting out the facts, and asking them to confirm their recommendation. So far no reply. I don't know whether they're wary of promising in writing not to boil my batteries, or if they just fail at the 21st century. I suppose I could dig out the quill pen and parchment and send them an actual letter, but I usually only do that with companies with which I am already in dispute, and it seems an ill omen to set out on.

I know I asked about this some weeks ago, but I didn't end up with a workable solution then and I still don't have one now. But the commissioning date is approaching and I need to get something in place.

Maybe I could fit a "smart" regulator which will drop the alternator itself down to 13.8 when charging is complete. But again, the thinking normally seems to be solely about boosting, and it's not clear that these products will reduce the output below what the built-in regulator is calling for. I also have very little space for new boxes in the engine bay. And I would still need some solution to the problem of overcharging the engine starter battery, which is where the ABC originally came into the picture. Trouble is, the ABC doesn't actually seem to be as sophisticated as people like to imagine.

Pete
 
Send them a final email lamenting the fact that they clearly don't want the business, print it and the others out and mail them in as well. Then offer a certain electrical whiz forumite the equivalent cash to create you something :)

I hate dealing with companies who refuse to communicate and even worse ones who appear to BS to dupe me into buying something. I'm bloody minded enough that I'd probably risk the expensive batteries just to spite them even though they'd never know I'd cost myself hundreds.
 
I know, usually we're concerned to get maximum juice into the batteries. But the AGMs I have in mind come with a strict warning not to apply more than 13.8v to them once fully charged, or damage will result. My alternator is specced at 14.2v +/-0.15 (or +/-0.3 without the sense wire), so if I simply connected the alternator to the batteries and then motored to France on a calm day, I'd be doing them no good at all. Given the price of the things, this is not a situation I'm prepared to risk.
Pete

First thing to find out is what voltage does the alternator regulate at currently, not written spec.

Once you know that you can move on a step, say you regulate at 14.3 volt, the battery will not be fully charged, so what does the manufacture say of a battery taking say 2 amp @ 14.3 volt, may be okay.

Now you know your problem how to drop the volts, volt drop across a diode varies with current, very low current can give a very low voltage, hence the answers you were getting. So if your domestic power load also goes through the diode this may well give you a higher voltage drop, or two diodes may be needed, mount power diodes on a heatsink for safety, but result drops alternator voltage to service bank.

If your charge voltage is to high, charge the battery using a VSR that can be turned off, that is also parallel to the diodes, engine battery is charged via alternator direct, the service battery via VSR till max voltage is reached, turn off VSR and charge through the diodes to give volt drop.

Simple cheap system that you can play around with.

Brian
 
Like this?

Or am I missing something?

Will it regulate the stock alternator lower than its own built-in regulator? Or are you suggesting relying on the diode splitter dropping at least 0.7 volts? Is this likely (I've never used one so I don't know)?

Won't that circuit end up boiling the engine battery while charging the domestic one?

Pete
 
Will it regulate the stock alternator lower than its own built-in regulator? Or are you suggesting relying on the diode splitter dropping at least 0.7 volts? Is this likely (I've never used one so I don't know)?

Won't that circuit end up boiling the engine battery while charging the domestic one?

Pete

My understanding is that this replaces the alternator's regulator and controls the output voltage via the field connection. I didn't notice you mention not wanting to disconnect your current regulator. The float charge on this regulator is quoted at 13.25. There is a full manual available to download on the link I posted above.
 
.......Simple cheap system that you can play around with.

Brian
With expensive AGMs you must do the job properly otherwise you will not get the advantage of their faster charging.

So you need a new alternator that can be controlled by an external regulator.

1. It should be a "hot rated" marine alternator that will give a constant high current output under heavy loads for long periods. Automotive regulators that come with a boat are not designed to charge deep cycle batteries, especially AGMs.
2. It should be large enough to deliver a current of at least half the battery bank capacity, so a 300 Ah bank needs a 150 amp alternator.
3. It should have a temperature sensor controlled by a good external regulator. It is often too easy for the alternator on a boat to get too hot if used for long periods.
4. The external regulator should have a sensor to measure the battery temperature which will rise with a heavy charge current. At 25ºC batteries start to gas at 14.4v, at 40ºC they gas at 14v so the external regulator will reduce the charging voltage automatically to compensate for this.
5. It should have a voltage sensor at the battery not on the alternator. This will compensate for split diodes or losses on cable runs to the battery.
6. The regulator must have settings for different battery types, but it should also be programmable to match the alternator and battery bank sizes.

I'm a great believer in AGMs, but if your budget won't stretch to all this then don't waste money on AGMs in the first place.
 
My understanding is that this replaces the alternator's regulator and controls the output voltage via the field connection. I didn't notice you mention not wanting to disconnect your current regulator.

I'm happy to do that if it can be done. The only instructions I've seen for opening up an alternator and adding a regulator come from Sterling, and they deliberately leave the existing one in place.

Pete
 
I found a couple of quite detailed threads on another sailing forum showing the modifications required but haven't done it myself so can't really offer any more except to say a friends boat has the master volt regulator with a 115amp alternator and he swears by it.
 
As I understand you have 2 lots of AGM batteries. Either 1 and 2 or engine and domestic. Your existing alternator regulator charges at 14.2 volts. You don't have a lot of choice to reduce the charge voltage. Either replace the regulator which will involve opening up the alternator. In which case you might as well fit a smart regulator with an adjustable voltage for float. If you do this do disconnect the original regulator as if left in circuit will always boost the output voltage to 14.2.
Or as said fit diode isolation which will drop .7 volt or more under charge load. If you have a battery sense wire this will need to be connected to the alternator output not a battery. This latter option might be best for a MoBo but will not give you fast charge as needed for a sail boat wanting minimum engine run/battery charge times. It will however protect your batteries from overcharge. (They may end upo undercharged however.) if you go this way put an amp meter and volt meter in the sytem to monitor what is happening.
good luck olewill
 
PRV, If you don't mind paying a little there's a very in depth look at all things battery based mainly on lifeline agm's here..... http://www.morganscloud.com/2010/08/02/agm-battery-test-part-1/
The comments can be a good source of info as well.

With your boat, what make of batteries are they & will they get cycled much? If there's much cycling going on you might find not getting fully charged is a bigger problem than too much.
If they've been discharged much then a trip to France might not even get them back up to full charge at 14.2v on an alternator.
 
PRV, If you don't mind paying a little there's a very in depth look at all things battery based mainly on lifeline agm's here..... http://www.morganscloud.com/2010/08/02/agm-battery-test-part-1/....
Morgan's Cloud is the best site on the net if you have Lifeline AGMs or want very good info on all kinds of battery volts and amps problems - BUT now you have to join and pay a small annual fee. This does keep away the serial offenders with tens of thousands of posts who spoil threads with their one-line comments with nothing sensible to say.
 
But the AGMs I have in mind come with a strict warning not to apply more than 13.8v to them once fully charged, or damage will result. My alternator is specced at 14.2v +/-0.15 (or +/-0.3 without the sense wire), so if I simply connected the alternator to the batteries and then motored to France on a calm day, I'd be doing them no good at all.

I think you might be overlooking the time factor here. Check with the battery manufacturer if the batteries would not tolerate 14,2 volts for 12 hours or so.
Perhaps the warning is more aimed at shore power chargers, that can be left connected for days or weeks.
 
Then buy a Balmar MC-614 Voltage Regulator: http://www.balmar.net/regulators.html

Any idea how I'd wire that to the existing alternator? The instructions only describe connecting it to an alternator without a built-in regulator ...

Yes, you just remove the built-in regulator connections, or the whole thing. I believe such regulators normally just bolt on to a plain alternator, but you should check your model.

My MC-614 is possibly the best bit of kit I have on the boat, it does exactly what I want it to do.
 
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