Channel (not global) cruising - how many anchors?

[Babylon]

Just replaced my old CQR with its old chain+rope with a new Manson and longer calibrated chain+rope to fit the newly-installed electric windlass. (I also already have a Fortress kedge with 10m chain and 50m rope.) The question is what to do with the old bower anchor and rode?

I cruise the Channel coasts for a month or so each year, and in future years hope to get further beyond (N Sea, Irish Sea, Round Britain, Biscay, etc), rather than setting off on a full-time global adventure. Boat is a Vancouver 27, heavy-displacement long keeler, and I don't race so weight isn't an issue, but space and weight-distribution is.

I could stow the old tackle deep down in a cockpit locker, but how likely am I to actually need it?

1. Fouling the main bower and having to buoy it?
2. Needing a second bower (in tandem or in a V) to ride out particularly bad weather?
3. Needing to lay a Bahamian moor in a tidal river or similar?

Just how far does one take 'good seamanship'?

 

[prv]

For what it's worth I'm happy with bower and kedge.

Pete

 

[Twister_Ken]

+1 with Pete, and you might want to add a fisherman in case, in extremis, you ever need to anchor amongst rocks

 

[oldvarnish]

Good bow anchor of your own choice with plenty of chain, and an easily-stowed Fortress as the spare - I feel happy with that.

 

[KellysEye]

>Good bow anchor of your own choice with plenty of chain, and an easily-stowed Fortress as the spare

Agree especially all chain on the main anchor.

 

[SteveSarabande]

I think some sailors like hoarding stuff just in case. I would get rid of it, the chances of ever heading 3 anchors is very low

 

[duncan99210]

Manson plus Fortress is more than enough. When we replaced the CQR with a Rocna a couple of years back, we kept the CQR tied down on the foredeck for the rest of the season on the can't do any harm to keep it principle. The we left it unsecured on the foredeck in the winter and at some point in time it fell into the ogin. We left it there!

 

[RAI]

I carry three but have only ever used two of them. The third, I tell myself, is in case I have to abandon one.
I always put two down if I am leaving the boat for more than a day.

 

[J Neeves]

Sadly - the reason you replaced the CQR was because you no longer trusted it (cannot imagine why). Things will not change, if you did not trust it then I cannot see that, when the chips are down, you will trust it in the future. I'd find an alternative use for it, garden ornament, securement point for the dog (or an opportunity to sell at a boat jumble?). I cannot fault your choice of Supreme and Fortress (assuming correct size). I'd tend to keep the old chain and rope (it can be stored relatively easily deep down in a locker, it should not come to harm and might be useful if you need more scope). If you feel twitchy - look at buying a Kobra, different design to Fortress and Supreme, relatively easy to store (sort of folds), has good reviews (from some really reputable people) and is cheap(ish). But I'd buy correct size - no point in having spares that cannot be primaries.

Jonathan

 

[vyv_cox]

I carried a Delta and Fortress for many years cruising Irish Sea, North Sea, Baltic and Med as far as the Ionian. After a problem on one occasion I bought a Rocna and kept the Delta on board as a spare. That was around six years ago and it has never been used since.

I have suffered a swivel failure once that led to temporary loss of the Delta, hence my reluctance to not have a spare. However, that was a particularly poor swivel and now I know a lot more about them:encouragement:

 

[Colvic Watson]

I've never used a swivel, the longest we ever anchor in the same spot is about three days - I there any point in having one? It seems to me that 30m of chain and 20 meters of rope can take a few turns on the tide and the swivel adds a weak point. What have I missed?

 

[prv]

I've never used a swivel, the longest we ever anchor in the same spot is about three days - I there any point in having one? It seems to me that 30m of chain and 20 meters of rope can take a few turns on the tide and the swivel adds a weak point. What have I missed?

A swivel at the anchor end is more about retrieving it onto the bow roller the right way up. If yours pulls in ok (or you stow it on deck) then you don't need a swivel, and the system will be more reliable as a result.

Pete

 

[J Neeves]

I've never used a swivel, the longest we ever anchor in the same spot is about three days - I there any point in having one? It seems to me that 30m of chain and 20 meters of rope can take a few turns on the tide and the swivel adds a weak point. What have I missed?

In our opinion, you have missed nothing. If you sit and the tides turns you in the same direction every day - your rode should take that number of turns.

Why they have gained such popularity remains unrecorded especially as they are not cheap.

Swivels are mentioned as failing, chain - almost never, shackles - almost never (and I'll not go down the 'anchor fail' road).

Jonathan

 

[LadyInBed]

I would sell it.
My kedge Danforth is big enough to use as a bower!

 

[vyv_cox]

I suspect there may be more to the need for swivels than meets the eye. I originally bought one because my windlass manufacturer specified one (Maxwell). There are several inputs to chain twisting on our boat. Our chain is always twisted after we have set the anchor, no idea why. Hauling the anchor causes it to rotate, happens with the delta and the rocna, something due to their asymmetry I suppose. On occasion we have had horrendous twists inside the chainlocker, apparently impossible and with no explanation i can think of.

However, this season I am swivel-less to investigate the difference. Have not yet left the marina but it shouldn't be long now.

 

[Mudisox]

50+ years sailing in similar waters with a big CQR, and a big grapnel type for Rocky stuff { also useful to "grab" ground chains, when drying out} . A spare CQR lives in the other chain locker and occasionally used to moor. As for swivels: never used or seemed to need them, as the last lift from the seabed can be taken real slowly to allow any twist to unravel. Never needed any fancy[expensive] new anchor - so why change? 4 lots of re-galvanising though. I suspect that it is the change to a powerful anchor winch that has got you thinking.
You will use it more and more, especially the drum. Going up the mast, pulling in one end of the boat, hoisting and tensioning sails, hoisting in the dinghy, all helped as we get older and less fit.

 

[Babylon]

Good bow anchor of your own choice with plenty of chain, and an easily-stowed Fortress as the spare - I feel happy with that.

I'll go with that, then.

@ KellysEye - 50m of chain spliced to 50m of 3-strand, should cope with most scenarios/tidal-ranges.

@ SteveSarabande - agree, trying not to hoard, hence my original question.

@ Neeves - this isn't a 'what anchor' thread, however it wasn't that I didn't trust my CQR, its just that I trust the Supreme more (eg the former never did well in Studland Bay whereas the latter has). I'd go with your suggestion of keeping the old chain and octoplait - if I ever lost my main bower and its cable, the chain would give the Fortress more weight still.

@ Mudisox - fair enough, I could have kept the old 25lb CQR (I'd already had it re-galvanised and used it well), but you're right in that I decided to go for the next generation once I'd committed to fitting an electric windlass - hauling 28m of chain manually was work enough, but now I've got 50m and expect to use a good deal of it regularly on the North Brittany coast. I didn't however opt for the drum version, as it would present a higher profile on my small foredeck, and I already have a block & tackle setup to launch/recover my hard tender from the coachroof.

Thanks for the helpful replies. Here's a pic of the unit (a Quick Aleph 700w) which I finally mounted last weekend (the old hawse-pipe can now go and the hole capped over).

View attachment 42342

 

[Jamesuk]

Good bow anchor of your own choice with plenty of chain, and an easily-stowed Fortress as the spare - I feel happy with that.

+1 forget the rope, anchor chain all the way. Never use the electrics to lower the anchor. Let gravity do the work (you know this im sure)