Changing headsails

[Wansworth]

My ,as yet untried Albin Vega, has a furling all purpose headsail the size of a Genoa.I came to pondering on having a furling headsail maybe a bit bigger than the working headsail.In any case is it easy to change headsails on furling gears at sea.I have no experience of the system as all my previous boats had hanked on sails.

 

[Poignard]

.In any case is it easy to change headsails on furling gears at sea.

Not on my boat. It has a very early Rotostay where the halyard is brought down the front of the foil and secured to the drum.

 

[dt4134]

The answer is it depends. Quite a few sporty cruiser racers come with below deck furling gear and many examples would be raced with separate laminate headsails. i.e. it is as easy to change a headsail as on a boat without furling gear.

Other boats are likely to have their furling gear less conveniently arranged for a quick headsail change.

It would be easy to test. Just unfurl your headsail and drop and re-hoist it.

Make sure the luff groove(s) are clean, the top of the luff tapes on the sails aren't frayed, and remember to lubricate with MacLube. Ideally you'll have a good set of monkey balls.

 

[bedouin]

In my experience it is a little harder changing a furling headsail at sea than a hanked on sail. Mine occasionally jams on its way into the luff groove and needs to be freed - easy if there are two of you but a bit of a pain single handed.

 

[dunedin]

My ,as yet untried Albin Vega, has a furling all purpose headsail the size of a Genoa.I came to pondering on having a furling headsail maybe a bit bigger than the working headsail.In any case is it easy to change headsails on furling gears at sea.I have no experience of the system as all my previous boats had hanked on sails.

What is the issue with just retaining the genoa? An undercanvassed boat can be very frustrating in light winds. And with decent winches and good technique, tacking a genoa on a 27 footer should be a doddle.
If getting a new sail a foam luff is preferable to aid setting when part reefed, but may not be cost effective to add to an existing sail. With this I never change headsails unless I need to, in spite of a fantastic kevlar blade jib which gets used less than once a year

 

[Cloona]

I have a furling headsail and I don't really like it - I would prefer a hanked on working jib and a genoa if I could afford it -

 

[fishermantwo]

My ,as yet untried Albin Vega, has a furling all purpose headsail the size of a Genoa.I came to pondering on having a furling headsail maybe a bit bigger than the working headsail.In any case is it easy to change headsails on furling gears at sea.I have no experience of the system as all my previous boats had hanked on sails.

Leave the present set up as it is and consider adding a code zero on a furler for light days.

 

[Wansworth]

Thanks for replies.As yet I have not sailed the boat but going on recent experience in a mates 32 footer the boat sailed perfectly well under working jib and ith the advantage that it was not a constant travail to keep a lookout under the genoa.Probably a working jib will be ok in a small boat in winds F4 upwards and will set better.

 

[stav]

Depends if you are sailing short handed or not, really.
On my Nic 36 I found changing the furler in more than 30knts difficult when singlehanded and twice ripped out the luff tape on the No3 when trying to hoist it when the prefeeder lost tension. I ended up with a No2 sized roller, a large light No1 on piston hanks, no3 blade (converted to piston hanks) and a storm jib (never used, thank fully). The last two sails set on a detachable forstay.
On the westerly conway recently pruchased I have gone for hanked foresails and have ended up with a large No1, No2, No3 and storm jib. I am going to look at putting a 'reef' in the No1 in case I need to shorten sail for just a little while to get home. Ideally I would like to have the set up I had on my Nic but am going to spend the last of the credit card on a feathering prop (kiwi) rather than put the money towards a furler.

 

[Searush]

Most furling headsails are Genoa sized, the whole idea is to furl part of it up if you want/need a smaller sail. Where's the problem with that?

I have converted both of my boats to R/R gennys simple because foredeck work is not nice in reefing conditions, especially when you are short-handed or solo. Pulling a bit of string in the cockpit is far safer, quicker & easier than carrying sails up to the foredeck, pulling them down, swopping them over, re-hoisting. packing the old one away & carrying it back below. Especially when conditions are such that you are alternatively waist deep in water or 2 foot off the deck as the bows crash thro the waves. Have you tried the comparison yet?

OK if you are racing with a strong crew & sending someone you don't like to work the foredeck - that could be fun, but otherwise, no thank you!

 

[flaming]

Most furling headsails are Genoa sized, the whole idea is to furl part of it up if you want/need a smaller sail. Where's the problem with that?

The rubbish shape of a part furled sail...?

A good compromise is to keep the big Genoa, but add in a sail that is about 100%. Then only do the changing in harbour. Simply decide which sail you want for that day and hoist it before you go. Advantage is you're less likely to sail with a part furled genoa - so better shape and less wear and tear on the genoa, but you have a genoa available for all those hundreds of sunny light winds days we get every year.....

On second thoughts, ditch the Genoa!

 

[Neil_Y]

Another option which I've used is to have the sail (a 120% genoa) cut with a high clew so you can see under the sail, you don't loose so much area but you will need to look at the sheeting angles.

But in answer tou your question every boat with a furler I've sailed on was difficult to do a headsail change on at sea. I've done it but it needed two people on the foredeck. Any breeze and waves will make it hard work, and you risk getting it washed over the side unless you are very careful.

 

[BobnLesley]

One way to do it is...

"...my experience it is a little harder changing a furling headsail..."

I'd agree with that. Until recently we've sailed a Vega and had a 100% workng jib and a genoa of about 135%. Early and late in the season, when breezes tended to be stronger and the weather more unsettled, we kept the 100% jib up and once in a blue moon we switched it for the genoa. Around mid-May the genoa went up as the 'standard' usually we'd roll rather than change back to the jib on any particularly windy days, but if we'd a long windward passage to make we almost always switched back to the 100% jib before setting off; you don't need a lot of actual wind when you're close-hauled on a Vega before its time to start reefing the genoa and as an earlier post accurately noted, we found that having a good sail shape made a big difference to the Vega (and I presume most others too) when trying to get to windward.

 

[RobbieH]

The rubbish shape of a part furled sail...?

A good compromise is to keep the big Genoa, but add in a sail that is about 100%. Then only do the changing in harbour. Simply decide which sail you want for that day and hoist it before you go. Advantage is you're less likely to sail with a part furled genoa - so better shape and less wear and tear on the genoa, but you have a genoa available for all those hundreds of sunny light winds days we get every year.....

On second thoughts, ditch the Genoa!

Fit a removable Solent stay running parallel to the forestay and about 6" back. Use the Genoa up to about F4. If it gets windier than that swap to a blade jib on the Solent stay. Good for storm jib too.

 

[Dougie_the_Mate]

We also had a big Genoa when we bought the boat and for a couple of seasons persevered with it, but she was never happy sailing to windward. One day I mentioned to a friend that we had a number one jib in a locker and he suggested that we tried it. The difference was amazing not only from a performance perspective, but from the fact that we could now see what lay ahead.

At the start of last season I thought we should try again with the big jenny, but it was just frustrating. Now when we need to go downwind we just use the cruising chute when the weather permits.

 

[Poignard]

What Flaming, BobnLesley and Dougie the Mate say makes a lot of sense to me.

A few years ago my furling genoa got badly damaged and I sailed for a few weeks with an old hanked on working jib that had been converted to furling.

The boat seemed to sail just as well in the prevailing poor weather of that summer and it was very convenient to be able to see easily under the sail, especially in the crowded Solent. Also the sail set well and the boat sailed more upright.

I suppose there must have been some loss of performance but as I don't race I wasn't aware of it.

If you think about it, most modern cruisers, with their large genoas, are probably permanently rigged for finer weather than we usually get. The result can be seen on a typical breezy day with many boats either over-canvassed and with their lee rail underwater or else sailing inefficiently under a partly-rolled genoa.

 

[bedouin]

For my boat I really don't think a large rolling Genoa makes sense.

If it is made of heavy enough cloth to stand winds of say F5-6 when part furled it is far too heavy to work well in the conditions when you really need the area.

My normal headsail now is about 110% and that is a much more useful sail. There are very few conditions in which it is significantly slower than the 150% and many where it is much faster.

At lower wind speeds I have the option to use a Gennaker or Reaching Asymmetric if I need the greater speed

 

[flaming]

For my boat I really don't think a large rolling Genoa makes sense.

If it is made of heavy enough cloth to stand winds of say F5-6 when part furled it is far too heavy to work well in the conditions when you really need the area.

My normal headsail now is about 110% and that is a much more useful sail. There are very few conditions in which it is significantly slower than the 150% and many where it is much faster.

At lower wind speeds I have the option to use a Gennaker or Reaching Asymmetric if I need the greater speed

To me this thread and the one about masthead and fractional sit together.

The Genoa originally developed because of rating rules that limited mast height and didn't measure sail area, just foretriangle area. Hence masthead rigs and massive genoas. And for some reason this became the norm on cruising boats.

But compared to taller fractional rigs they are less efficient, harder to physically sheet in and restrict visability.

In racing circles the genoa is dead, I haven't seen a new boat with a Genoa since 2004, and nobody is in mourning. I just wish those people designing cruising boats would hurry up and deliver the coup de grace!

 

[snowleopard]

If you're used to foredeck work with hanked-on headsails the big differences you will find are: On lowering, the sail drops out of the groove and has to be tamed. If it gets away from you in a big breeze it will give you a major headache. On hoisting it will jam in the groove unless hand fed though a pre-feeder will help. Racing boats do it all the time but when cruising you can really do without hassle when it comes time to change down in a rising wind.

 

[Wansworth]

We also had a big Genoa when we bought the boat and for a couple of seasons persevered with it, but she was never happy sailing to windward. One day I mentioned to a friend that we had a number one jib in a locker and he suggested that we tried it. The difference was amazing not only from a performance perspective, but from the fact that we could now see what lay ahead.

At the start of last season I thought we should try again with the big jenny, but it was just frustrating. Now when we need to go downwind we just use the cruising chute when the weather permits.

That sounds a good idea.The boat comes with a cruisin chute.The previous owner was a racin man so a roller reefable working jib will be great for not going anywhere in particular.