Change to hydraulic steering

Why? Don't you appreciate the positive feedback & the fixed "ahead" centreing? I am told that hydraulics will centre on a different position all the time due to minor leakage across the pistons and that they feel a bit "woolly" compared to Bowden cables. :confused:

I did consider "upgrading" but was told by people who had been there & done it that, that they wouldn't do it again.

[Puts on Tin Hat & hides under table waiting for barrage. :cool:]
 
I have hydraulic steering and to be honest I would prefer something different. Hydraulic steering has no feel, and as some one who has done a lot of dinghy and performance catamaran sailing, the lack of feel I find very disconcerting.

What is it about your cable steering set up you don't like?
 
michaelchapman said:
I have hydraulic steering and to be honest I would prefer something different.
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My 2nd-hand impression is that while hydraulic steering is less than ideal on a sailing boat, it is preferred on powerboats who don't need or want feedback from rudders or outdrives. Looking at the OP's avatar...

The only hydraulic steering I've used was on a sailing vessel, but it was a 500 ton sailing vessel so not quite the same :-). No wheel feedback, but apparently when they initially tried to use mechanical steering the "feedback" forces were so great that they had to abandon the idea and fit hydraulic.

Pete
 
its more complicated

there are two ways to configure a circuit, one way gives you feedback and the other doesn't.

I recently replaced the worn out kit on my yacht with new vetus kit but you need to understand how to spec a system.

If you only have a wheel pump and rudder drive piston you can select the type without locking non return valves on the pump.

That way the piston pushes back against the pump and you get feel. Nothing like a tiller as there is more friction in the system but if you let go the wheel spins and the boat rounds up.

If you have two wheel pumps for two steering positions you need the locking non return valves in your circuit or else one wheel would turn the other and the rudder wouldn't move.

this is typical on indoor / out door mobo installations and hence they have no feel.

If you fit an autopilot based on a hydraulic pump you have two choices. You fit the non return / locking valve system to both losing feedback and feel or you can cheat a bit......

You fit the autopilot pump which will have locking valves anyway and you install a wheel lock at the helm. Mine is a hinged flap with a slot that lowers onto the wheel spoke to lock it. that way you can still have the feedback and an autopilot.

Also, on a cat, you may need to fit a mechanical link between rudders and drive the system from one cylinder to keep it simple.

Have a look in the Vetus catalogue on line. It is all explained very well. They will do you a complete package including hose unions the lot if you want.

Hope this helps make things clearer.
 
The reason is that there is slack and friction in the system, also no autopilot which I would like.
The system used has a pretty tortuous routing, especially from the flybridge.
Both sets of cables meet on a drum under the saloon, then another cable runs from there and onto the rudder quadrant.
So this involves three ninety degree turns from the flybridge helm, one from the lower station, then onto a drum which drives another cable which has a ninety degree turn to the quadrant.
Nearly all mobo's I know of run hydraulic steering, feedback from the (tiny) rudders is of no importance to me.

The boat.

Liftout07005.jpg


And the err...rudders.

P1010132.jpg
 
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Do it and fit an autopilot while your at it, then you can make the tea with abandon!! No knowledge of the gear you are looking at, most systems I have come across are Vetus.
 
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PM me if you'd like- I can make some recommendations for you regarding sizing and pump flow-rates. A properly-specced system will have to take into account the vessel's speed, the rudder configuration, and then the sort of "feel" you need- F1 response or slower, more sedate operation.
+1 to Euan for pointing out the Lock-valves- one in each helm-pump is imperative. That way you can fit the autopilot pump anywhere in the system.
I don't know whether you can fir a tie-bar between the rudders without some major work, but if you can, it would save you a HUGE amount of hassle, because without it you will need to re-synchronise your rudders from time to time, as you will need a cylinder on each rudder and you will have no way of controlling Ackermann angle. Synchronising rudders is, at best, a pain in the stern, so try avoid twin cylinders!
Is there any way of fitting a cylinder to drive the linkage-wire between the rudders? Maybe a pair of morse-type cables driven from a single cylinder?
Good luck!
 
Fascinating thread thanks all, I have learned a lot - including why MoBo's can't steer at slow speed!! I have never seen such a tiny rudder - but I do understand that something bigger could be really dangerous at speed. My rudder is about 4' x 2' and has about 1/3rd forward of the post as balance - but it has to work at 0-6kts rather that 10-40kts.

Probably still won't change my steering as there is little slack in the cables & it has a pretty straight run & the wheelpilot can turn the wheel for me if I need it.
 
Searush said:
Fascinating thread thanks all, I have learned a lot - including why MoBo's can't steer at slow speed!! I have never seen such a tiny rudder - but I do understand that something bigger could be really dangerous at speed. My rudder is about 4' x 2' and has about 1/3rd forward of the post as balance - but it has to work at 0-6kts rather that 10-40kts.

Probably still won't change my steering as there is little slack in the cables & it has a pretty straight run & the wheelpilot can turn the wheel for me if I need it.
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well that's at least one sailor who appreciates the difficulty caused when negotiating a narrow creek, and following a yacht.
 
Searush said:
A bit different? Would "dead" or "spongy" describe the difference? How does your autohelm cope with the moving "centre position"?
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It copes very well as we have it all set up as a duel station but only one steering/helm position. As to the difference it felt at first too soft with very little resistance to it. Now we are used to it, it is great.

Peter
 
As has been stated,a helm indicater at each steering position is required.On the boat I look after,if you move the wheelhouse wheel, the upper steering position wheel stays stationary and visa versa.Made by 'Hypo Marine'.The boat also has a detatchable emergency steering tiller set up, in case of hose failiure.
Cheers
 
I deal with Phoenix all the time and they are good to me.. Not dealt with the marine side of things but should imagine are just as good..They supply all my needs for parts for my Hydraulic tanks that i build.
 
Searush said:
A bit different? Would "dead" or "spongy" describe the difference? How does your autohelm cope with the moving "centre position"?
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Spongy hydraulic steering like spongy hydraulic brakes needs something done to remove the spongeyness. The leak by on both pumps and rams should be minimal if the kit is in half decent condition. The feel should be reasonable, probably not much worse than my rod and pinion gear. As for an autopilot needing to know mine does not know where midships is, it doesn't even know where the rudder is pointing so it works it out for itself in fact looking for the position where the heading is held which is often not midships.

Clever things autopilots
 
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