Chain or chain and rope?

[DennisF]

Hi all,

I have a small Vivacity 650 22ft bilge keeler, recently bought, that currently has a CQR anchor that is too big to fit in the locker and has about 8m of (rusty) chain with no rope! I am going to replace the anchor and chain as both are quite corroded, but I am unsure whether such a small boat would cope with the weight of all chain (and what length to go for?) or whether I should go for say 6m of chain and then anchorplait (and again what length). What would you all recommend? The boat will initially be used around Milford Haven, but I may well take her to sea as my experience grows.

 

[DennisF]

Also, is keeping the anchor on deck much of a problem? The anchor locker on a Vivacity 650 is rather small and doesn't look as though it would take anything much over 6kg as a CQR

 

[PeterGibbs]

Hi all,

I have a small Vivacity 650 22ft bilge keeler, recently bought, that currently has a CQR anchor that is too big to fit in the locker and has about 8m of (rusty) chain with no rope! I am going to replace the anchor and chain as both are quite corroded, but I am unsure whether such a small boat would cope with the weight of all chain (and what length to go for?) or whether I should go for say 6m of chain and then anchorplait (and again what length). What would you all recommend? The boat will initially be used around Milford Haven, but I may well take her to sea as my experience grows.

Some 5+ meters of substantial chain would be a good idea to help set the anchor and keep it beded. The line attached should be 12mm plus - anchorplait is good - less would allow nothing for wear and tear. Splice a good eye to the line and shackle to the anchor when needed: be sure the shackle is ground in tight or wired to prevent release under load. 30m of anchorplait would be good, 40m generous.

The size and type of your new anchor will be determined by space in part, if it cannot hang over the bow roller (?) If it can be stored in an aft locker and brought forward when needed...? A huge anchor is not needed but suitability to the terrain is at least as important. Wales - rock and weed mainly? The manufacturers all have their claims. Many of us have stuck with CQR over the years and not come unstuck.

PWG

 

[Tranona]

10M of 7 or 8mm chain plus 30M 12mm rope spliced on is a good basic set up. You can buy ready spliced if you are not confident in your own splice. No problem keeping anchor on deck if you have a means of securing.

You can get good information on warp and anchor sizes from the Jimmy Green Marine site.

 

[Colvic Watson]

I think 6mm chain would be quite sufficient and for the same weight you'd get about 50% longer chain. To put it in perspective our 34' Colvic Watson is just on the edge of 8mm being acceptable according to sizing sites, we went 10mm but I suggest you would be fine with 6mm.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Why not just get the existing chain and anchor regalvanized and put some rope on the end?

 

[prv]

Nothing wrong with keeping the anchor on deck, I do.

Do make sure it's well lashed down so it can't move about. If needed, you can get ready-shaped plastic chocks to hold a CQR.

Pete

 

[chewi]

I couldn't say what size the CQR anchor was, but I once had a Vivacity650 (it was called "LOT 1") and kept the anchor in the locker, and it was big enough to serve its purpose. Fiddle with ethe anchor, try it different ways around before you despatch it.

I thought the same of the anchor for my current Cobra 750 and almost went down a size, but eventually learned how to wiggle it into the locker.

 

[DennisF]

Thanks for all your replies - that has been most helpful. I'll go down the route of 6m of chain and 30m of rope I think. I can't regalvanise the existing chain as it is very deeply pitted through rust in places.

I'll keep fiddling with the anchor and keep it for now - although I think I mayl have to cut the chain off as the shackle is also rusted!

Apologies if this takes a while to appear - I'm still a new forum member so posts have to be approved by a moderator.

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

[VicS]

Hi all,

I have a small Vivacity 650 22ft bilge keeler, recently bought, that currently has a CQR anchor that is too big to fit in the locker and has about 8m of (rusty) chain with no rope! I am going to replace the anchor and chain as both are quite corroded, but I am unsure whether such a small boat would cope with the weight of all chain (and what length to go for?) or whether I should go for say 6m of chain and then anchorplait (and again what length). What would you all recommend? The boat will initially be used around Milford Haven, but I may well take her to sea as my experience grows.

It depends on what the boat was designed to carry.

My 19ft Sea Wych has, and was designed to carry, a 15lb CQR copy and 90 feet of ¼" chain.

I keep the anchor on deck, lashed to the special chocks for CQR anchors.

The building instructions advise that additional ballast should be added if rope is used rather than chain.

If you opt for rope then 50m of 10mm, preferably 12mm, Anchorplait, Octoplait or 3-Strand Nylon would be a good choice.

I don't usually disagree with Tranona's advice but on this occasion I think 30m of rope is a bit short..

 

[PetiteFleur]

My boat of some years back - a Vivacity 20 had about 30m of 6mm/¼" chain with a genuine CQR anchor(don't remember the weight) with about 20m of 10mm 3 strand nylon. From memory never had to use the rope and around the East Coast never had a problem of the setting of the anchor in our glutinous mud. The anchor was stowed on deck on the CQR chocks one could buy years ago, nowadays they only seem available on ebay!

 

[VicS]

The anchor was stowed on deck on the CQR chocks one could buy years ago, nowadays they only seem available on ebay!

http://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/item/6379/wet-line-universal-anchor-chocks !

But in all honesty not necessary Lashing to the bases of the pulpit rail is just as effective

 

[DennisF]

It depends on what the boat was designed to carry.

My 19ft Sea Wych has, and was designed to carry, a 15lb CQR copy and 90 feet of ¼" chain.

I keep the anchor on deck, lashed to the special chocks for CQR anchors.

The building instructions advise that additional ballast should be added if rope is used rather than chain.

If you opt for rope then 50m of 10mm, preferably 12mm, Anchorplait, Octoplait or 3-Strand Nylon would be a good choice.

I don't usually disagree with Tranona's advice but on this occasion I think 30m of rope is a bit short..

Thanks for this. I'll ask on the Vivacity 650 owners website to see if anyone can tell me what they were designed to carry. Decisions, decisions.....

 

[machurley22]

Hi all,

I have a small Vivacity 650 22ft bilge keeler, recently bought, that currently has a CQR anchor that is too big to fit in the locker and has about 8m of (rusty) chain with no rope! I am going to replace the anchor and chain as both are quite corroded, but I am unsure whether such a small boat would cope with the weight of all chain (and what length to go for?) or whether I should go for say 6m of chain and then anchorplait (and again what length). What would you all recommend? The boat will initially be used around Milford Haven, but I may well take her to sea as my experience grows.

You'll get as many different answers as members who respond. My 22 is probably heavier than yours and I know nothing about sailing around Milford Haven since I'm on the west coast of Scotland but FWIW...

You don't say what size your CQR and chain are but the budget option is simply to splice on a length of 8-strand, maybe 40 or 50m. If you'll initially only be doing lunch stops and overnights in fair weather this will be more than adequate I'd suggest and 50m of warp never goes to waste if you decide to improve your ground tackle later on.

My best bower is a Raya 600 with 30m 6mm chain spliced to 30m 12mm 8-strand. The chain (with a snubber) is enough for 90% of situations with the warp coming into play if it starts to blow or you want or have to anchor in deeper water.

Most keep their anchors on deck or over the bow roller. My second bower is a 20lb pattern plough which is also kept on chocks on deck though it's identical 30+30 cable lives in the bilge for reasons of weight distribution.

It all gets rusty eventually and chain can look pretty bad before it's unfit for purpose.

HTH

 

[VicS]

It depends on what the boat was designed to carry.

Well done I see you have asked on the owners club forum. !


I see you have asked about the toilet as well.

If its Ok and the valve shuts Ok keep using it.

I just ripped mine out because the diaphragm had gone hard. I smashed up the bottom bit to get it out but I'll hang onto the valve flap for the time being in case it could be of interest.

( now got a 2¼" diameter hole in the hull to fix up!)

 

[DennisF]

Well done I see you have asked on the owners club forum. !


I see you have asked about the toilet as well.

If its Ok and the valve shuts Ok keep using it.

I just ripped mine out because the diaphragm had gone hard. I smashed up the bottom bit to get it out but I'll hang onto the valve flap for the time being in case it could be of interest.

( now got a 2¼" diameter hole in the hull to fix up!)

Thanks - the ball-head toilet seems to be working OK at present, so I'm planning on leaving it alone for the time being. I did post a reply here saying I was going to check with the owners forum about chain capacity, but my posts get delayed in appearing due to having to be approved by a moderator. Hopefully they will remove this restriction soon!

 

[Gitane]

I have a V650 and keep 30 meters of chain and a anchor in the bow anchor locker without any problems.


Gitane

 

[William_H]

Chain or rope

Small boats are a real problem of fore and aft trim. My 21ft (650) is very light and trim is important. You need to get some ideas by external view (photo or friend) of you in normal sailing set up. ie number of crew and amount of gear. This will tell you if you can cope with more weight in the bow. I certainly would not use more chain than say 5 metres because of weight concern. But then I don't anchor very much anyway.
Weight in the bow in my boat will minimise slamming of bow in choppy waves but on the other hand too much weight in the bow makes it a pig under shy spinnaker and slower. So get the trim right olewill

 

[D.Freshwater]

I have a V650 and keep 30 meters of chain and a anchor in the bow anchor locker without any problems.


Gitane

What size anchor do you have? I have been told 0.5kg per ft, which works out at about 10-11kg. Is that about right?