Centaur Windows

[Risa]

Can anyone give me some advice on how to reseal the main cabin windows on my 1974 Centaur.

The frame, retaining "flanges" and retaining screws are all ST. ST. and appear to be in good condition I can only assume that the rubber seal has perished.

What can I expect to find when I remove the screws? will it all go back together easily? can I do this single handed? where can I get replacement seals?

Creeping Crack Cure has no effect.

Thanks in anticipation

 

[vyv_cox]

Sadler 34 windows

I'm not familiar with Centaur windows but from your description they sound similar to those on Sadlers. Here's a procedure I wrote for them. Hope it helps.

1. Removal.
Unscrew all countersunk screws around the external flange. Although it is very bad practice to insert a tool between the flange and the coach roof sides, this is the only way to remove the window. Use a wood chisel or some other sharp, thin tool and carefully insert it, doing as little damage as possible to either the flange or boat. Pushing the window frame from the inside will help, particularly after the initial adhesion has been broken. Hitting the inside of the frame with a mallet, using a wooden stick as a buffer, seems to be ineffective due to the resilience of the rubber sealant. Eventually the frame will come free.

2. Separating the glass from the frame.
The frame is in two halves, joined at top and bottom with a very small plate held by two extremely small (2 or 3 mm) countersunk screws. Remove one screw from each plate. Begin to separate the two halves by inserting a chisel or screwdriver into the join and twisting it. If the old sealant has deteriorated very badly this will not be too difficult, but it is a different matter if the sealant is still good. Keep pulling the two halves apart until eventually they slide off the glass. Fortunately, the glass seems to be very tough and I have not broken one yet!

3. Cleaning
This is quite a difficult job that must be done properly to ensure that the new sealant adheres correctly. Initially, scrape off the old sealant with any knives, chisels, scrapers that seem appropriate. Once the entire surface is fairly clean, begin to use abrasive methods. Two products that are OK to use are nylon pan scourers and wire wool. Neither of these will mark the glass. If you use wet-and-dry paper the adhesion of the sealant will be inhibited and the glass may be scratched. The two solvents to use are acetone or methyl ethyl ketone, which both de-grease, and alcohol to dry the surface. Once at this stage it is best to work in medical gloves, partly because the ketones will sting any cuts on your hands, but mainly to save re-depositing grease on the glass and frame. Surfaces of both must be absolutely clean and well washed with the solvents.

4. Re-assembly
Re-assemble the frame around the glass, making sure it all goes back the same way. Insert the screws and tighten. Lay the frame down with the inside down and position the glass so that it is central within the frame. The time has now come to inject the sealant. I have used both marine silicone and polyurethane for the job and have seen no difference between them. Cut the end of the injector tube to leave a fairly small hole. Check that the sealant is thin enough to inject, these products thicken up as they age. If they are very viscous, take them back to the shop and replace with later stuff. Now begin to inject into the frame, keeping the injector tube facing in the way it is moving and keeping a bead of sealant ahead of it. This minimises the possibility of air pockets. Use plenty of sealant so that it completely fills the gap. Now leave it alone for 15 - 20 minutes. By this time it will have begun to skin over and thicken. Hold the frame and glass together so they do not move independently and turn the whole assembly over so the injected sealant is facing down. Press the glass down evenly so that the sealant extrudes outwards all around, but not so hard that the glass touches the frame. Now repeat the injection process, filling the gap at the inside of the frame. Inject in the same way, minimising air pockets. This leaves the outside sealant surface relatively narrow, with the inside some three times wider. Now leave the whole thing for a couple of hours, or until it has hardened enough to handle.

5. Trimming and refitting
Trimming is best carried out after a 24-hour period, to ensure that the new sealant has hardened right through. A Stanley knife or similar is used to cut the majority of the excess material off but the final small particles need to be rubbed off with nylon pan scourer. When refitting to the coach roof the main point to remember is to use plenty of sealant, so that it extrudes all around when tightening the screws. After an hour or so the outside and inside can be trimmed off carefully with a sharp knife. The final job is to clean off all excessive sealant from the fibreglass with a rag. It now remains to test with a hosepipe.

Hopefully the sealant has been applied well enough that there will be no leaks, but if air bubbles have been introduced, some water may get through. My experience is that this is not because adhesion to the glass has failed, so it can be fixed. Probe inside the boat in the leaking area with a needle or a sharp blade until soft areas are found. Cut here with the knife until the air pocket is exposed. Cut away as much as possible, especially under the edge of the glass, then refill with sealant, forcing it down with a spatula or some similar tool. Although this sounds rather primitive, I recovered some bad leaks during my early trials using this method, since when they have not leaked a drop.

I have now resealed all windows on my Sadler 34, some a couple of times, and gradually developed this method with experience. I am now pretty confident that I could achieve a perfect job first time, but could repair it if I did not. The main point is that nothing is lost except time and a couple of tubes of sealant. If all fails you can always call in the professionals!

 

[AndrewB]

I've just replaced all the windows on my yacht, which though not a Westerly was fitted with old-style Westerly windows.

I found that the screws were quite hard to get out. They are stainless into aluminium, and needed an impact hammer to release. In one case a couple couldn't be shifted and I had to destroy the internal clamping plate, though being a flat aluminium plate it would have been easy enough to get a local metalwork firm to make up a new one.

I found there is a big problem if you want replacements. The RCD has meant the old type can no longer be sold. However, if you are restoring the old ones that won't bother you.

Because of this RCD business there are now a number of companies advertising window restoration, and it is definitely worth contacting them. While you have the windows out you might also consider having the frames re-anodised, and new acrylic fitted if the old is showing UV damage. These firms will also be able to supply material for new seals. Be careful though, some seem to be sharks. After a run-in with a couple of these, I had good service from Branchsound Ltd., Unit 9 Springfield Road Ind. Est., Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex CM0 8TE, Tel: 01621 782964.

 

[ToMo]

Perhaps someone on here: http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/ can help you, I think they have got quite a good spares service going too!
TôMö

 

[Risa]

Thanks folks - looks like a job I can tackle with a weekend and and a tube of sticky. Cant wait!

 

[Barnacle]

I replaced the rubber seals in the windows in my 1975 Centaur. The frame came apart quite easily after the small brass screws are taken out, and slipped off the glass easily too. The seal is a strip of u shaped rubber which was perished and peeled of the glass leaving little residue, any left came off with a scraper and acetone. There wasn't any other sealant used and the frame recesses were pretty clean.
I went to a local manufacturer of rubber extrusions (yellow pages) and bought a length of u shaped rubber, this was a little thicker than original but made the seal a little better. This I put around the edge of the glass and then persuaded the frame back on using quantities of Lockhead Rubber lubricant grease (motor factor) and Holts rubberlube spray. I used the cleats on the top of a workmate and those tie down straps for roofracks and trailers with rachet tightening mechanism to get the force in the right place. I half expected the glass to explode at any moment but it proved remarkably tough. The first window made me sweat blood, but the last 3 came apart and went back together very easily - I suppose I was more confident. Forcing the bits back together squashed the rubber and made it "ooze" out from the frame and overlap, i trimmed it back with a stanley knife! Putting the frames back in the boat was a two man job and probably took longer. Now I've got to sort out the headlining, leaky portholes, threadbare seats etc etc etc
Barnacle

 

[Risa]

Now we're cooking no sticky, non specialist(ie cheap) replacement seals - Im guaranteed to shatter a pane now arnt I.

Im not so bad wrt headlining- Risa has 1"x 1/4 mahog battens running the length of the cabin @ approx 300ctrs. looks effective and keeps the lining where it should be.

 

[Barnacle]

yes, the batten method works quite well, the intermediate sag looks like quilting and probably improves insulation! The killer is damp I think, gets in the foam backing and starts the breakup and sag. I'm on a marina berth and used a B&Q dehumidifier for 4 hours a day over the winter and this spring there is no mould and the interior is generally much more savory!
The problem with using sticky sealant on the cabin windows in my view is that if you ever need to do it again I should imagine it will be impossible to get them apart without damage. Each to his own!
Barnacle