Centaur - a few q's!

[mikeduckett]

Centaur - a few q\'s!

I've had a look at a couple of Westerly Centaurs this weekend and have a few questions for owners / prev owners. Planning to move up to a circa 26ft cruiser and seriously looking at a Centaurs. But never sailed on one so a bit unsure of performance, etc.

- performance - this is my main interest - compared with other boats in the same price / size category (Halycon 27, A Vega, Contessa 26, ) how do you rate the performance (I'm not used to bilge keelers) vs older long keelers, other bilge keelers?
- what is the main diff between the A & B layouts?
- what are they key watchouts - osmosis / epoxy treatment - is the a must?
- there also seems to be a huge diff in price for not alot of diff re condition - assuming sails, rigging engine all under say 8 yrs - what range seems usual for mid 70's on?
- have prices trypically remained steady in the last few yrs?
- approx what cost for a replacement engine?
- my req's are for 5 berths, sep heads, inboard eng, safety above speed, ideally drying out ability (oh yes and circa 8 -12k) - any other suggestions?
- are there any online reviews / write ups?
Thanks in advance.
Mike

 

[philip_stevens]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

PM sent.

regards,
Philip

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

I had a Westerly Pentland which is a sort of 31' big sister to the Centaur. Points to look out for are as follows,

Osmosis:- My Westerly (Built 79) had to have treatment when 6 years old for this problem whilst in a previous ownership. 1st try with an early International Product failed and the blistering returned within a year.This was followed by gel peeling and application of VC tar. Since then until 1998 when I sold the boat there were no problems.

Bilge Keels:- Centaurs are prone to problems with the Bilge keels in that they need attention after spending some time on drying moorings. There was an article in PBO some time ago on how to sort out the problems.

Engine:- I would think that this will be a Volvo MD2B or if a very late version, a Volvo MD11C. The MD11C on my boat broke a crankshaft while in a previous ownership and this was replaced with an earlier Volvo MD2B. When I took over the boat in 1992, the MD2B gave no end of problems with the water pump leaking and filling the sump with seawater (this was due to bad assembly by previous owner) The engine also bent a pushrod, it siezed, was a pig to start and cost me over a £1,000 in spares to sort out all of the problems. If the work had been done by a Volvo dealer i would treble that amount. Spares for these engines are very expensive, £200 (ish) for a gasket set, £60 for one set of rings, £75 for a single main bearing, £250 for a piston, £40 for a valve and so on.

Sailing:- Not good to windward unles you motor sail, great on a broad reach and OK on a run. Does not compare against other boats with deep keels like Halcyon 27 (which I have also sailed) or the Contessa.

General:- Despite all of the above I would buy another Pentland (and throw away the Volvo) Always felt safe, boat never heeled too much so my Lady was quite happy, Good family crusing boat but will never win any races.

regards

John C

 

[halcyon]

Re: Centaur -VC tar

John C or anyone.
Our Halcyon 27 was coated with epoxy tar ( we believe ) as a antiifouling prior to tras- atlantic cruising by previous owners.

Anyone with info on the stuff?

We know it sticks, the surveyor had serious problems removing some to do the osmosis check, hull was very dry in the end.

Thanks


Brian

 

[PaulAG]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

OK, I have a 1972 Centaur so can perhaps answer some of your queries.
The performance is steady rather than sparkling, but nevertheless gets you there with little fuss; it won't scare the kids or wife! My own Centaur has 'behind the mast' main reefing - very old Bowman original (really an adapted foresail reefing system) - but it works OK even if it reduces the performance. I also have an open backed wheelhouse with optional wheel steering as well as the tiller. So performance suffers again BUT it does make for comfort! Performance will not compare with fin or long keeler.
A-layout is dinette-style; B layout as mine, is the more popular and common and is long L-shaped settee to port with galley opposite. 5 berths possible in B layout if someone sleeps on long berth, but a bit narrow. Starboard quarter berth a bit short also.
Problems - watch out for bilge keel stubs not reinforced with webs across the sumps, and if present, are well done. Mine broke away when I clipped a rock and I found more glass than resin! Re-done now. Dries out OK in softish mud (Chichester Hrbr.).
Osmosis - yes but my old hull just wet with few blisters. Epoxied about 7 years ago and OK since. Generally the 'Westerly droop' of the headlining - easily replaced by lining on ply panels if you do not mind the work.
Prices - ca. GBP10 - 12.5K and relatively steady. Some bargains if you do not mind a fair bit of renovation.
Engine - mine has the original MB11C but I replaced the cylinder heads complete about 4 years ago and OK since. Expensive though ca. GBP 1.2K per pair with gaskets etc. Watch out for Dynastart not converted to starter and alternator - low output to batteries. New engine - allow ca. GBP 3.5-4.5K depending on professional or self install.
I have a copy of original advert leaflet and a review done several years ago by PBO I think; also engine manuals (DIY and wkshop) but at home in UK. If you want a copy, email me and I will forward by suitable means when I am back in UK beginning November.
Good hunting!



PaulAG

 

[Rob_Webb]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

Mike

The above posting from Paul is very good and answers all your questions to a greater or lesser extent. The only thing that I would add from my own experience is that I used to own a late 1979 centaur (B-layout - the only one to go for I think) and after a long break from sailing returned to ownership erlier this year. I looked at buying another centaur but found many of them a bit over-priced and starting to look very dated. I ended up going for a Leisure 27 which gave me a much more modern look and feel, even though it is still a 1979 boat - it looks and sails as though it is from a different era from the centaur and I am very happy with my choice, given my budget - my boat cost me £14k by the way, which is at the top end of the centaur price range but you will find some sellers optimistically asking for even more!

My only quibble is that the engine in my Leisure is an old single pot, whereas the centaurs will all have twin pots of either 23hp (esrlier volvos) or 13hp (later). The 13hp is more than adequate and drives the boat quite fast enough without the extra weight of the unnecessary extra 10hp.

The Leisure is about 1 foot wide than the centaur and gives correspondingly better accommodation down below. Admittedly it does look a bit fatter but I don't believe excessivley so and her taller freeboard help her carry the extra beam.

Finally, sailing performance. I was never disappointed with the centaur because I was brought up on modest bilge-keel westerlies (ended up with a Berwick eventually) and found the centaur safe and predictabel. Excellent for the family and very solid. The leisure (mine's a fin)sails undoubdtedly better especially to windward but also will not win any races - but in a heavy seaway I have found her to be just as seaworthy as my centuar was.

So to summarise, I don't think you would find a late, B-layount centaur too bad a boat but if you get the chance to check out the Leisure 27 it might give you food for thought at a not-much-greater budget.

Let us know how you get on.

Regards
Rob

 

[johna]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

Before going nap on a Centaur have a look at the Sabre 27 it is a better competitor to the Centaur than the other boats on your list.

Web site www.sabre27.org.uk lists about 6 for sale both bilge and fin.

John

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Re: Centaur -VC tar

The VC tar on my Westerly was applied in 1985/86 and when I had the boat surveyed in 92, the hull was very dry for a boat of that age. The boat was surveyed again in 1998 and still did not show any problems. As far as I know it is not as hard as Gelshield but it never gave any problems.

John C

 

[BOBBIN]

Re: Centaur -VC tar

VC tar, is an epoxy tar, recommended as a coating following treatment against osmosis, it provides an effective barrier with greater film thickness than gelshield or similar epoxy coatings. I used it as a preventative rather than cure, and I suspect that others probably did because of its properties.
Provided the hull was proberly abbraded, you would have to strip the gellcoat to remove it. It has no antifoaling properties, and VC17m teflon was the reccomended finish in the late 80's. Any questions just ask.

 

[Johnjo]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

Mike was in a simular situation myself five years ago,not really sure what to buy,Had a good look around and viewed a good few boats in and out of the water,
Then I spotted a fin keeled Sabre 27 laid up in a local yard as soon as I saw her Iknew this was the boat for me, Nice underwater profile and very good accomadation for a 27 footer,And will certainly out sail a Centaur,Agood safe sailing boat with good performance,The boat I ended up buying was fitted with a M.D 11B with a dynostart, never had any real problems with it.But the dynostart was a pain in the arse, Had to go below and decompress the engine to start even when warm,Fitting a new engine this winter,Thoroughly recommend the Sabre they also do a twin keel version,Good owners association as well.
good luck whatever boat you choose.

mike

 

[seahorse]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

Hi, I have a 79 Centaur which I bought fter much study.
I'm not interested in racing & find it ideal for cruising. Ive lots of mods controls to cockpit, R/R, changed engine to a Kubota
& fitted fresh water central heating, invertor, chart table,
electric toilet. A folding prop (Gori) makes a big difference to speed undre sail.

I'll E-Mail articles if U want them.

 

[PaulAG]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

Seahorse; re. central heating and other mods - I would be interested in how you did some of these. Any chance of corresponding? Where are you, in UK?

PaulAG

 

[Guest]

Centaur vs Colvic

Centaur .... sturdy boats, well constructed generally but suffer from osmosis and most boats are either treated or ready for it.
Keel fitting often splayed by standing long periods on ground / drying moorings acusing immense pressure exerted on inner keel face as the boat sinks into the mud.... due to the angled keels.
For size of boat and age - excellent layouts available for cruising .... good for 3, 4 bit pinched, 5 limited time.
Engines are generally larger than really necessary - but good to have ... most boats due for changing the Volvo's !
Sailing ability is better than most heavy Motor Sailer types which Centaur sits as a compromise.

My big argument against them is the price .... otherwise I like them and I say that as a surveyor.......

I own a similar boat that is 25ft, but sitting alongside a Centaur is hardly different .... a Sunrider 25 ... forerunner of the Colvic 26 .... the Sunrider is a lot cheaper and has same characteristics as Centaur but without Keel problems.

As to alternate boats .... take a look at the Colvic 26 ... similar layouts, similar size, good construction of hull, no keel problems etc. and normally about 3K cheaper than equivalent Centaur....... why pay more ??

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[mikeduckett]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

What difference would you expect between the bilge & fin versions?

 

[FlyingSpud]

Re: Centaur vs Colvic

Nigel, you know a lot more about this than I do, but isn’t the reason you pay more because the centaur will sell more quickly and for more money, when you come to pass her on? It may make no more sense than the reason why, say, the VW Sharan holds its value better than a Seat Toledo despite the fact that they are the same car, but it is a fact of life.

 

[dickh]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

Have you also considered a Jaguar 27? You can get both fin and bilge keel versions and both sail well. Can get them for 9k upwards - well constructed and strong.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[MartinGPerry]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

You can visit the Westerly Owners Association web site www.westerly-owners.co.uk and also post this question on the Westerly News List, westerly-owners-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Martin

 

[max]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

I had a Centaur which I traded up for a Pentland (pretty much identical layout below but stretched in all directions). Loved both. Safe, solid, family boats with surprising space down below. Agree with all comments about sailing ability.

Look for cracked stringers in the area of the keels. Hull flexes if drying out regularly causing the craking. Solution is to grind out the damaged stringers and glass in heavier replacements.

Osmosis likely to be a problem if not epoxied.

Mine had an MD11C which proved very reliable. The Pentland had an MD1B which died and I replaced for around £5k with a Volvo 2030.

Sagging headlinings can be replaced with covered ply panels. Quite fiddily. For a quick fix you can hold them up with battens running side to side and spaced every foot or so. I did this for a temporary fix on the Pentland four years ago, and they are still there now!

I bought my Centaur in a messy state for £12000 and sold it in a tidy state for £13750. That was four years ago. Needless to say I spent more than the difference doing it up.

 

[Guest]

Disagree ....

My experience is that prices asked are inflated ... having negotiated for others and also a few times for myself. But generally found that Colvic sellers didn't drop so much ! So eventually we arrived at similar prices.
The only comment I will make in agreement with yours is that Colvics can be suspect on interiors ... as a lot are Home Completed. But again I have seen some really excellent pristine home jobs ... as good as any Centaur.
The last Centaur I looked at was awful ..... and price was at top end of 13K !!!! Exterior fine, apart from marina scrapes etc. But interior initially looked good and clean, but had that musty odour ..... lifted the bunk cushions and boy it STANK !! The cushions were suffering and would soon have split underneath, the bunk support tops were warped, the cooker and galley spaces were suffering from condensation damage etc. etc. etc. But a very nice plaque on the bulkhead RNSA ....
I did not offer on it ..... bought the Sunrider 25 instead for 8K.

Quality is only Quality when it is looked after. Second Colvics don't need extra rovings inside the hull to carry the keels.

Sorry but Centaurs - I like them, but feel they are generally overpriced .......

Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[SimonD]

Re: Centaur - a few q\'s!

Well said Dick!! But, given the numbers built, pretty scarce on the secondhand market. I'd like to think that is an indication of their value to owners!