CE decision - will it affect RCD?

[KevinV]

I am delighted to see some common sense prevailing re recognising CE standards, instead of implementing a second set (UKCA). Do the panel think/understand/know whether this will affect the stance on the RCD? It would be a huge help if we reverted to a shared/mutually recognised standard I think?

I have no interest (here) in the politics of it, past or present - just how regulation of our hobby might be affected.

UK to retain EU safety mark in latest Brexit climbdown

 

[benjenbav]

I am delighted to see some common sense prevailing re recognising CE standards, instead of implementing a second set (UKCA). Do the panel think/understand/know whether this will affect the stance on the RCD? It would be a huge help if we reverted to a shared/mutually recognised standard I think?

I have no interest (here) in the politics of it, past or present - just how regulation of our hobby might be affected.

UK to retain EU safety mark in latest Brexit climbdown

I read about that and wondered the same!

 

[Moonbeam]

Lets hope they do take the same stance on creating a UK version of the RCD. It would be daft not to.

There are some boats in France, that even if paying the 20% VAT on import, are looking like very good value compared to some in the UK. But the spectre of having to have the boat re-certified to UK RCD standard is, at the moment, an unknown hassle and expense that ultimately makes you give up on the idea of boat shopping on the continent.

As an aside... I've a feeling that it is reasonably likely we will be re-entering the single market in some form within the next 5 years or so. Then the VAT headache would hopefully also disappear.

 

[Seven Spades]

I would like them to get rid of the CE/CA marking system altogether rather than having British red tape instead of EU red tape. The RCD has for the most part been beneficial for the yachting industry and has made some important improvements in safety. How did we manage in the past without all the regulation?

 

[ylop]

How did we manage in the past without all the regulation?

The point of the directive was not necessarily to make boats safer (although in some cases that may have happened too) but to stop individual markets imposing their own standards which suit local manufacturers better and keep foreigners out. Red tape is a PITA but if it opens up access to 26 other countries perhaps it’s worth it - especially if it created a barrier to entry for inferior products coming from the Far East or even the US.

We now seem to be saying (almost inevitably) that U.K. built product (whether boats or other directives) will need to conform to the EU standard, but a standard we no longer get a voice in shaping. Good news for U.K. consumers trying to access boats on the continent. Bad news for any U.K. boatbuilder. Unbelievable it’s taken this long to get to this though - many U.K. manufacturers have already spent a lot getting ready for UKCA.

 

[benjenbav]

UK Guidance updated yesterday: leisure boats will continue to be within CE marking regime; marine equipment not.

UKCA marking: conformity assessment and documentation

 

[pessimist]

UK Guidance updated yesterday: leisure boats will continue to be within CE marking regime; marine equipment not.

UKCA marking: conformity assessment and documentation

Probably being thick but how does this relate to RCD? Are the two sets of regulations linked? Sorry if it's a stupid question.

 

[benjenbav]

Probably being thick but how does this relate to RCD? Are the two sets of regulations linked? Sorry if it's a stupid question.

I referenced leisure boats, but the new guidance actually speaks of ‘recreational craft’ - as in the ‘Recreational Craft Directive’. But, one still needs to remember that uk.gov Guidance is not the underlying legislation so much as an interpretation of that legislation.

 

[dunedin]

Probably being thick but how does this relate to RCD? Are the two sets of regulations linked? Sorry if it's a stupid question.

Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) are the relevant rules applied to leisure craft which must be met to get an EU CE mark (which applies to a huge variety of products).
Looks like a huge amount of time and money - both public and for our poor boat industry - has been wasted trying to create the Recreational Craft Rules (RCR), an almost clone of RCD to meet UK government need “to be different”, which may now die a death. Looks like boat builders will need to comply with EU RCD rules, but no longer be able to influence them.

 

[pessimist]

So, if I understand correctly, we just need the VAT nonsense sorted and we'll be able to buy/sell leisure boats within the EU again. AS Dunedin says bad news for boat builders but good news for the rest of us.

 

[ylop]

So, if I understand correctly, we just need the VAT nonsense sorted and we'll be able to buy/sell leisure boats within the EU again.

Well, I think this latest plan has to actually make it in to law first and never underestimate the ability of gov of any flavour to screw it up so, e,g, it only applies to new boats!

AS Dunedin says bad news for boat builders but good news for the rest of us.

Its actually good news (just too late) for most boat builders. EU ones no longer have to consider if they want to to UKCA mark or exclude the UK market; UK ones can build a boat that meets one set of requirements and sell anywhere in Europe. The annoyance is they've just spent 2 years+ being told the exact opposite and preparing accordingly.

 

[Moonbeam]

In light of the latest gov CE decision, this article in PBO from the CEO of a UK CE certification company makes pretty interesting reading.

What the indefinite delay of the UKCA mark means for boat buying and selling - Practical Boat Owner

 

[st599]

So, if I understand correctly, we just need the VAT nonsense sorted and we'll be able to buy/sell leisure boats within the EU again. AS Dunedin says bad news for boat builders but good news for the rest of us.

Nope, the decision allows boats with the most recent RCD certification (post 2017) to be imported. Doesn't help with older boats, in fact it may make it worse as their may be fewer companies able to authorise the import in business due to less work.

 

[benjenbav]

In light of the latest gov CE decision, this article in PBO from the CEO of a UK CE certification company makes pretty interesting reading.

What the indefinite delay of the UKCA mark means for boat buying and selling - Practical Boat Owner

Thanks for posting that article.

Much seems to turn on

• “A product must comply with the legislation at the point it is first sold or put into service in the territory.”

The article suggests that “or” in that statement should be read as “and” so that, for example, if a UK resident buys a used 2018 Beneteau from St Malo to bring it to Portsmouth a further compliance check will be triggered by the import.

Does anyone have the authority for this construction of the quoted paragraph? The article does not appear to drill down to that level of detail.

 

[Moonbeam]

Thanks for posting that article.

Much seems to turn on

• “A product must comply with the legislation at the point it is first sold or put into service in the territory.”

The article suggests that “or” in that statement should be read as “and” so that, for example, if a UK resident buys a used 2018 Beneteau from St Malo to bring it to Portsmouth a further compliance check will be triggered by the import.

Does anyone have the authority for this construction of the quoted paragraph? The article does not appear to drill down to that level of detail.

Indeed... I've read the article twice now, and I don't really feel any clearer on the new situation. I think the author is almost admitting the same, and he's in the CE business!

 

[dunedin]

Indeed... I've read the article twice now, and I don't really feel any clearer on the new situation. I think the author is almost admitting the same, and he's in the CE business!

Probably because the officials writing the rules don't understand them either. Certainly the politicos did not.

 

[Neil]

Gosh! getting near to mentioning the 'B'-word; 'ware the moderators

 

[Tranona]

Probably because the officials writing the rules don't understand them either. Certainly the politicos did not.

That wording is straight from the original EU directive and is in the law for each state. In the past it was interpreted in a way that once a product was in service it complied forever, even if the boat left the EU and returned at a later date. My understanding it the EU still interprets it the same way, so boats moving from the UK to the EU now do not need to be re-assessed and the pre 1997 exemption still applies. The article is suggesting the opposite, but it is not clear that is what is actually happening.

 

[benjenbav]

That wording is straight from the original EU directive and is in the law for each state. In the past it was interpreted in a way that once a product was in service it complied forever, even if the boat left the EU and returned at a later date. My understanding it the EU still interprets it the same way, so boats moving from the UK to the EU now do not need to be re-assessed and the pre 1997 exemption still applies. The article is suggesting the opposite, but it is not clear that is what is actually happening.

Thank you. That was exactly what puzzled me. “Or” always suggests it’s one or the other; not both.