Catermerans for blue water?

[Guest]

I have always being biased against cats because I have read so much about their natural inclination to stay inverted in the event of a capsize. However, they seem to be used successfully for many long distance voyages, including round the Pacific and many circumnavigations. Therefore, I'm wondering if I have the wrong idea; maybe my boat for "The Trip" should include cats (perhaps a 36' Prout) in the list of possibilities.

Advantages for Cat sailors include:

1. Stable platform
2. Acres of deck space for tenders etc.
3. Speed (get away from the weather)
4. Roomier below deck accomodations.
5. Two engines in case one fails.
6. Well venitlated.
7. Able to take the beach for cleaning
8. Access to shallow bays for anchoring

.... and probably many more features if I thought about it.

The biggest disadvantage seems to be that they do suffer unduly when loaded down for seriosuly long term cruising - but I suppose this depends on the design.

Does anyone have any input as to why they are perhaps better or worse than monohulls of a similar LOA?

 

[Robin2]

Well, for one thing they don't need a big lump of lead to keep them upright

 

[Boatman]

What about the negatives,

Double the mooring fees
Pig-awful corkscrew motion
Don't like big seas

Etc etc

 

[andrewhopkins]

Heavy weather sailing

There is a good piece in this book about the pros/cons. Essentially they are more difficult to hold in a suitable position in heavy seas but as you say, they can get out of the way quicker!!

I think most of us would buy one if it wasnt for the cost and room they take up in berths.

The other great advantage is that in some coves/bays, deep draught just isnt possible. The caribean has loads where you cant get a 1.8m draught vessel over a bar etc.

However, i think i'd still buy a Rustler 42 to cruise the world. Dont know why, but i just prefer monos!

 

[Guest]

Mooring fees?

Several UK marinas don't charge double for Cats (probably a South Coast thing).

 

[Twister_Ken]

When they invert...

...they generally stay afloat. Good ones have access hatches underneath, so you can get back into the accomodation from the new roof.

 

[Boathook]

Being a 9m Catalac owner I am biased towards them. I have thought of mono hulls like the Southerly but they are very expensive and not very roomy for the length. My Cat is a 30 year old design so is very conservative compared with todays boats. Windward performance is/can be slow but if proper cruising you wait for the wind to change!. Broad reach or on the run are easy and fast and broaching is nearly non-existent even with the spinnaker.
Many of them have sailed around the world though, and the loading (weight) does not seem to be a problem. The big cockpit, large fordeck are ideal when anchored/moored which is where most boats spend their time!
Drying out is easy, the big worry being whether I have anchored on the edge of a steep channel but the lead line soon sorts that out.
Stowage for sea is only involved slightly for F3/4 and more serious stowage in F5/6. The milk carton sliding of the table is a sign for checking!. Food preparation before sailing involves making sure that we have enough and prepare and cook whilst sailing.

I could go on but as I said I am biased .....

 

[alant]

Whats the closest you (or most) Cats can sail to windward?

 

[BrianJ]

Read te post above by kingfisher..bet you already have. I like them for "coastal" cruising but not sure about mid ocean...
BrianJ

 

[Boathook]

50 degrees is the closest and still move but you then have to add on lee way ...
60 degrees is best as the autohelm can still control & the lee way is not to bad!
Newer design Cats are much better possibly to the tune of 10 degrees or more.

 

[Guest]

Crumbs - that\'s bad!

As I seem to go to weather 80% of the time, I couldn't live with that. My boat goes like a rocket at 28 - 30 degs off the wind.

 

[Guest]

Re: Crumbs - that\'s bad!

I have a Prout which we use for blue water sailing. I have also had mono's so I think I can be reasonably dispassionate.

pro's
space
good ride by comparison to mono
little heeling (try going to windward on a mono for 48hrs!)
excellent at anchor and in harbour
safer (you would have to be v v unlucky or stupid to invert. then you would have a large life raft. mono's sink)

cons
doesnt take kindly to lots of extra weight
being light, is not at its best to windward in a chop
cow to handle in marinas unless you have twin engines

fully laden it is not much faster than a mono, say 10%. it sails at 35deg to the apparent wind ie a performance similar to a modern bilge keeler but as indicated above like most lightweight boats it does not like a chop. swell no problem.

in the uk i have never ever paid more than the rate for my length and this includes the south coast. in france and spain you often end up paying 1.5 times the length rate which in terms of space is about right ie you have 1.5 times the space of a mono.

in conclusion, i would always chose a cat for distance cruising, but i would go for a mono for the usual weekend sailing / club racing.

 

[Vasco]

Re: Catamarans for blue water?

Catamarans are excellent for blue water cruising.I have delivered 38 to 43 foot Lagoon,Prout and Fountaine Pajot on transats and down to the Indian Ocean.They can face bad conditions sometimes much more confortably than monohulls.And it takes really excepcional seas and some bad handling to capsize a decently built catamaran.

 

[alant]

Re: Catamarans for blue water?

Since they don't point too well, any tips on reefing/raising mainsail? Do you have to use engine to keep into wind?

 

[Guest]

I have a 43' Fountaine Pajot, launched in june this year. I am thrilled wiht it and can say that the quality of the build was faultless. I keep the boat in the med on theCosta Blanca where In live and wouldn't swop my cat for any mono in the world.

In buying one, I would strongly advise to buy as recnt a design as possible as I believe there has been more advancement in this area with cats than with mono hulls.

If you want any furhter advice or info , don't hesitate to contact me.

Adios,

 

[cleo]

They're all right for going to the Azores, but not for comin' back.
.......Seems certain designs of 50' racing cat will self-invert if left too long flying the big racing spinnaker and only t'autopilot on watch, while all t'others do lunch!

bilbo

 

[Vasco]

reefing

I do it pretty much the same way as with monohulls,I prefer not to point right in the eye of the wind when reefing , and prefer to let the main sheet out.Everything, running rigging wise , is like a monohull, except for the absence of a kicker.Any proven method in a monohull will answer in a cat.

 

[douglas_family]

Since they don't point too well, any tips on reefing/raising mainsail? Do you have to use engine to keep into wind?

You can raise the main sailing on the head sail the same as a mono. With twin engines manoeuvrbillity is fantastic, wave induced capsize becomes very unlikely at 39" and above and wind induced capsize is very controllable. mulitull's vary in design massively as do monohulls. Light weight racing machines are sailed close to the edge and capsizes happen, check out the AC45's on you tube to see some spectacular wipe outs! Old cats like the prouts are slow and with low bridge deck clearance and poor head room in many I would personally avoid but many modern production cats offer a good balance of accommodation and reasonable sailing abilities. When we blue water cruised on a Kelsell 45 Catamaran we could sail to windward more efficiently than cruising Mono's of similar length, but cruiser racers were of a similar VMG although we would tend to sail a further distance a bit faster probably overall we had the edge. Racing Mono hulls like the x-yachts would defiantly leave us upwind, But off the wind was a different matter. We generally cruised between 8 and 12 knots choosing not to go faster as noise levels and spray started to get a bit much for the kids. We had good light wind performance 7 knots in 5 knots true wind on most points of sail. If I was in the market and had the money I'd be looking at the British built Dazcat 1395 for blue water cruising. The Dazcat site is worth a visit, for info and video's.
The down side is really financial, much of the med will try and hit you for 1.5 or double the mooring fees, the initial outlay i expensive and there is a fair amount of maintenance with 2 engines. Life on anchor with the deck space and sitting comfortable stable to a bridle is sublime though and we certainly spent very few nights in marina’s overall. Cats are more stable upside down than the right way up but then, the good ones wont sink when flooded where as a mono is most stable on the sea bed.
Just as Mono’s not all multi’s are the same so take the time to learn about design characteristics before you buy in the same way as you would a mono, fat hulls=more space and load capacity, but more wetted surface and drag=slower boat, narrow hulls are faster but have less load capacity and offer less internal volume. Sales blurb that says you can have it all should be read with caution. The 420 for example is not a quick boat for its size.

 

[bedouin]

Leaving aside pointing ability - what is the realistic comparison between the passage speeds of a typical cat in cruising trim and a mono of the same LOA?

 

[Sybarite]

...they generally stay afloat. Good ones have access hatches underneath, so you can get back into the accomodation from the new roof.

In France at least escape hatches are mandatory. On cruising cats as well, the sail area is defined so that wind alone will be incapable of capsizing them.