catamarans & marina charges

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catalac08

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Having had a small catamaran for several years I had become used to (but extremely irritated by)the surcharge of 50% levied by many marinas. However after having a conversation with a Scirocco owner in the summer at Milford Haven (their experience was that ithey complained and argued their case and that they had not paid a marina surcharge for many years). I became encouraged to protest about this and sucessfully managed to avoid paying this surcharge at a number of marinas, mainly on the basis of being only 13ft 8in beam I fit within a standard pontoon berth and therefore there is no rational basis for a discriminatory and unfair surcharge.
My question is at what beam does marina berthing start to become a problem with respect to not fitting easily within finger pontoons and not occupying 2 berths. I try to avoid marinas whenever possible but they have a useful role, fuel, water, charging batteries apart from provisioning and foiul weather.
Also interested in other cat owners experience in avoiding surcharges and any (unusual?) arguments used to good effect?
 
I got hammered by a jobsworth at Swanwick Marina (that will teach me)
Some of the other guys on the staff would have been Ok with it. But I got the one who had to follow the rules.
So its pot luck with the personality behind the till when its time to pay / haggle.

I too avoid marinas, but I'm on the Thames Estuary. Not so easy on the South Coast.
 
"So its pot luck with the personality behind the till "

Depends whether the marina has a policy on it as well!

FWIW we don't apply a multihull surcharge at the moment, because 99% of the time we have space available. The problem comes when a cat has to be put on a berth which is suitable for a longer vessel, in order to accommodate the beam. The marina is then losing money in comparison. Multihull pontoon arrangements usually mean one less finger ie 2 fewer berths overall.

This cat has an LOA a tad under 8m, and an 8m boat would rarely have a beam more than 2.5m. A 4m beam would usually belong to a boat on an 11 or 12m finger.

This argument really only applies to finger pontoons IMO, since if you are on a hammerhead or a wall it makes little difference.

It would seem reasonable for the provider of a facility to generate an income from it, and if there is a cost involved in catering for some kinds of craft then it should be recouped, but I agree that an compulsory application of a surcharge could be petty.

In all the marina-bashing posts that I have seen (I usually avoid them, being in the business /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) I haven't seen any consensus about charging criteria - there will always be someone who will "lose out". LOA seems as fair a system as any, and if a vessel has "special needs" then the extra cost is either borne by them, or everyone shares the cost.

(And BTW, for everyone's info, "Registered Length" has little to do with ACTUAL length - it could be from one of several kinds of measuring systems. )
 
My worst experience this year was in Newlyn Cornwall where I was put on the end of the long single pontoon furthest away from the gate and facilities, in the wash from all the in and out traffic only occupying a single berth yet charged 50%extra as a cat. £38 for an 8 hr stay. I tried objecting but was told that although the guy synpathised it was the rules. Im 37ft and a 40ft gin palace next to me was 10 inches less beam. No 50% extra for him. Sorry you just hit on one of my gripes.
 
You make your case thoughtfully but I had a 9m Catalac built 20 years ago and I've think I've heard most arguments for surcharging cats from here to Egypt. Even when I offered to pay the length cost of a powerboat of the same width, some wouldn't do it. I regret to say it did seem like greed when there were empty berths. A few crowded marinas didn't take cats on principal but I think that may have changed. The fairest solution IMHO is to charge length x breadth. Doesn't that seem more equitable?

Martin T.
 
Very rarely pay a surcharge for having a Cat. If they only ask the length on the radio thats all they get. Seem to get into most berths when using marinas .............

Edited for spelling !!
 
Re: catamarans & marina charges

I generally agree with you, and consider a surcharge merely because a boat is a multihull is unfair.

LOA x B is a solution, but also consider the case of finger pontoons - a cat won't fit on a finger for a monohull of the same length, and a longer boat could occupy the berth that can accommodate the cat's beam (in general). That's why I was specifically talking about finger pontoons - there IS a cost involved for the marina, if profit criteria include density of berthing and infrastructure investment.

The amount of profit marinas make is a different topic altogether, and not one I intend to get into, but when people complain about berthing fee rip-offs they are generally doing so without any idea of the costs of providing those facilities. Just because an annual increase is "above inflation" doesn't mean necessarily that so is profit margin.

Anyway, I wouldn't charge you extra if you visit my marina /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: catamarans & marina charges

Just wonder where is Portishead Marina ?
Might pop in sometimes.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I know the marina where we keep our boat ( http://www.dlmarina.com/map/ ) have a "dedicated" berth for catamarans (although there is usually some big boat in there during the winter?). Maybe a bit more forward thinking by marina designers would solve the problem of catamarans taking up a lot of beam space. I remember a big Lagoon cat in the marina last year and he took up no extra space at all.
 
We have a 9mtr Catalac & yes there IS a RIP OFF idea from some marinas, as it seems there is a RIP OFF culture throughout the whole country.
Our worst experience in the UK was in DOVER we were put on the end of a pontoon clearly where no other boat could go & yet still charged 50%. When i questioned the extra charge i was 'TOLD TOUGH' take it or leave it, we had to stay for 1 night due to the weather. I duly completed one of their questionaires as of yet 3 years have past they have still not taken the interest in answering, clearly they don't give a damn.
Us catamaran owners are in a minority i know, with no one to fight our case for a fair deal.
I have tried the arguement re- some monohulls are as wide as us for the same length , also that we have been put where no other boats can go BUT TOLD you are a MULTIHULL, so tough. Maybe if we are charged for two berths we should DEMAND that we have two berths & not be squeezed in. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
agree with the point made - ie that if it is not taking up more of allocated space why should there be a surcharge but to be honest isn't the pricing approach of most alongside berths illogical ?

after all when I am in a marina berth that accomodates my 34' doesn't seem to be a lot of sense in why for the same berth I should be paying less than someone in a 36' or more than someone in a 32' - tempted to point out that in carparks and campsites you pay the same money regardless of size but do recognise that berth slots are variable so perfectly reasonable for marina operators to have a policy to vary the price by size of slot , have always felt fairest approach is with size bands where boats of say 25-32' all fit in same berth size and all pay the same - to me that seems a fair and reasonable approach
 
had a cat for 7 years and in that time I never paid a surcharge in the UK from Ipswitch all along the south coats to the Bristol channel. OK I had to argue the case but my Prout was 14 ft beam and could fit in a normal berth as long as there wasnt a Westerly alongside. The worst arguments were always at the local authority marinas and surprisingly not around the Solent.

In France the trick was to get to the marina office and pay before the guy in the dinghy had managed to tell them you were a multi. The office didnt ask so I didnt tell. Spain was the worst - I never got away with less than width times length or 150% there. Funny - you'd expect Latins to be more casual about the rules but instead it was us Brits.

Mind you, all this was more than 4 years ago and when many marinas werent quite as full
 
Re: catamarans & marina charges

My experience in Dover was that I was told I would be charged the surcharge in the tidal outer marina but not if I locked into the inner basins. that seemed fair enough. In other places the rule has been that if you use a finger pontoon and occupy two berths you pay for both of them but if you lie alongside or on a hammerhead you pay by length like everyone else.

It's the ones who charge the surcharge even though you are occupying the same amount of alongside space as a mono that really annoy me. The worst of all was Mylor who insisted on 100% surcharge but only told me after I'd been there a week!

In Portugal they generally charge everyone on a length x beam basis so the fat mobos share the pain!

I did try to compile a list of which marinas surcharge but there was little enthusiasm at the time, most responders said they never got charged. Do we think there is enough interest to try again?
 
Re: catamarans & marina charges

It's always good to know who charges and who doesn't and if they do, how much. I have never been surcharged in Cherbourg for instance. IMO a surcharge if you are taking up two pontoon finger berths is understandable, but not alongside unless space is very limited. Certainly not on a hammerhead unless such spaces are specifically reserved for cats. What really Ps me off is if at 5 metres beam I get a surcharge and a 5 metre wide mobo doesn't. I always look to see charges as soon as I enter. If it's a marina I have not been to before I go straight to the fuel pontoon and ask the price of diesel and berthing. If it's unreasonable I turn around and go elsewhere if possible or only stay one night if not. Perhaps we should indeed start a register of multihull-friendly and unfriendly yards.
 
Re: catamarans & marina charges

I'm with you Mike - Lets set up a register of yards - I'll be planning a wee cruise for later in the year and it would be good to find out where to avoid!
 
Re: catamarans & marina charges

I am all for the list - planning a trip along the south coast next year then back along the French North Coast....

The Prout Owners Association has a forum now - I could dedicate a subject heading to Marinas who do not charge 50% and anybody could then add to the list??? The forum like the site is open to all FOC so it would be available to all cat owners...

Michael
 
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