Cat panic

ErikKiekens

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after 30+ years of sailing monohulls, and in preparation of world cruising trip, am considering buying a catamaran. Main reason is the space for money. Please tell me I won't regret the sailing fun?
Erik
 
I think many people cruise the worlds oceans perfectly happily in cats. The thing that scares me though is inversion - a solidly built monohull will come back up again, a cat however is more stable upside-down and the links below show that it's not as uncommon as people think.

These stories scare the willies out of me. I've owned sport-cats for over 10 years and they are fantastic fun to sail, but when they go over and invert completely, that's it. I was involved in the rescue of 3 lads in Brittany many years ago, they were exhausted, approaching hypothermia and just sitting on an inverted cat being driven further offshore.

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/1648026-post253.html
http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums...ULL-DISASTER-STORY-FROM-MED&p=21419#post21419

Here is the counter-argument .....

http://www.multihullcompany.com/Article/Catamaran_Vs_Monohull

but even he says ...

I would say that a monohull is preferable for serious offshore single-handed sailing because you can hove-to in a howler and sleep it out more easily than you can on a catamaran. A multihull does require very careful seamanship in serious storms. For this reason I believe monohulls are better suited to single handed sailing or voyaging in Northern and Southern latitudes. A super well built monohull will often capsize or even roll in a storm, but they generally pop back up, even if the rig has been swept away. Once a catamaran goes over she stays over. But, here again, she generally stays afloat, offering an excellent place to survive until one is rescued.

As always, it depends on what kind of sailing you want to do .....
 
There is no short answer to this but as I have owned both and sailed both in all conditions I would say it depends on the vessel. You cant just say "catamaran" any more than you can say "monohull" There are things for and against both. The old argument against capsize can be countered by simply asking what happens to a monohull if holed? Would you rather float upside down or sink very rapidly? If you are going to look at statistics for capsize of cats you need to compare with statistics for the sinking of monohulls. If you are looking at true blue water vessels then both have their advantages and disadvantages, but don't let capsize be an issue. A well found and properly handled catamaran will look after you very well. Avoid "go faster" designs with dagger boards etc though. Go for a long low aspect ratio fixed keel. Also look carefully at load bearing capabilities. A cat will be sensitive to too much "cargo" While there are exceptions in smaller models, you need to think preferably about 40ft and bigger. Not because you need the space, but because you need live aboard load carrying. Good luck in your quest!
 
Before buying this last boat, we considered a largish CAT. However, we did a few days aboard a KATANA 50 belonging to a friend.

All is fine in light weather but when the seas grow and waves slap under the center portion, one reflects on how long will the boat stay together with all the banging.

In fact, a mate who had a Lagoon 38 cracked both hull to center deck joins... he had it repaired and sold it. He now owns a monohull again!

GL to you.
 
Do you mean it will be good? Or bad?

It's not a question of "good" or "bad". The motion is quite different to that of a monohull and the reaction to the shape of the surface - the waves - is much quicker. This leads to a description by those who do not like multis along the lines of "Like driving a Formula One car across a ploughed field"! I sail a 10-metre monohull but I am now quite uncomfortable when I go out with a friend who bought the 6-metre boat that I used to have; I am now used to the more relaxed motion of a bigger boat. It is something that one gets used to... or simply gives up.

It is true that there have been many cases of inversion; they are loved by the media and are given much coverage. The question to ask is "Why did they invert?" In most situations it is caused through bad seamanship, including driving the boat beyond reasonable limits in the quest of a silver cup at the end of a race.

It is a similar situation with people: the few who commit murders are given pages of coverage while the vast majority who go quietly about their business do not get a mention.

I have always liked multis and the main reason why I do not currently have one is the exorbitant fees that are charged by most marinas. Treat them reasonably and sensibly and you will not have major problems.
 
The Catana is a relatively light high performance cat and not necessarily one I would choose for blue water cruising. The Lagoon is also not known for build quality and in my opinion built down to a minimum price and build quality. In fact you have just made my point. There are many different designs and builders in the catamaran market and they are not all the same. Its just like me saying I would always choose an integral keel monohull over one held on with undersize bolts to a hull which is like a flying saucer....... although I note you have one where that keel has not fallen off (yet........)
 
We moved from a monohull to a 46' cruising cat. It has LAR (low aspect ratio) keels rather than daggerboards, like the Catana range of cats, so it can dry out, much like a bilge keel mono. The space is, well, huge. Performance at anchor is superb. It's a much more stable platform for 'liveaboardability' and that stable platform also equates to much less crew fatigue on long passages. One particular occasion springs to mind that illustrates the point - we were sailing to windward in a pretty stiff breeze (I forget the numbers but it was a damn good '6') and we were standing there in the relative shelter of the cockpit drinking mugs of tea. We watched a 40 ish foot average & newish mono heading in the same direction that had crew clinging on and getting wet. Hour after hour of that on a mono or a cat? We prefer our cat thankyouverymuch. On another occasion, motoring up river, very strong wind against tide, we passed a Contessa 32 (not such a good comparison, I know) pounding into the waves and shifting some water over the decks. We were almost in disbelief because our cat was so stable and dry, although LWL would have played a part here. Nevertheless, we've sailed monos enough to know that a cruising cat is a world apart. I wouldn't go back to monos if I could help it.

As for the risk of capsize, well, it can happen, but thankfully it is relatively rare on cruising cats. Just like it is relatively rare for a mono to sink. Monos do sink, but that alone wouldn't stop me buying one. See above!

We are fortunate that our cat has excellent bridgedeck clearance and this reduces the likelihood of bridgedeck slamming. On the rare occasion it has happened, we are usually sailing close to the wind in pretty choppy conditions. Bearing away a few degrees stops it , and increases speed :D We are a heavily loaded cruising cat but 8 knots is easy peezy, we regularly see 10 knots without really trying and speeds in the low teens are easily achievable with enough wind. But plus or minus 10 knots is comfortable and reduces stress on the boat - we're cruising, not racing.

The enemy of a catamaran is weight and it's an easy trap to fall into with all that space. For that reason I would consider 40' a minimum size for a couple who plan to liveaboard full time. If not full time then you can probably get away with something a little smaller.

Oh, yes, the other enemy of a catamaran is marinas who often charge mono + 50% rates although thankfully some charge standard rates and we make use of them where possible, although the long term plan is to spend more time at anchor as it's such a comfortable platform.
 
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Do you mean it will be good? Or bad?

I have not sailed one but a past owner told me that the motion was not so "predictable". ie when waves hit it diagonally across the stern & bow it gives an odd jerking motion which he hated. I have no idea if this is true but cat sailors will advise. Problem is that boat owners tend not to want to admit mistakes so may not tell the whole truth, so it is often best to try a boat for yourself first.
 
We moved from a monohull to a 46' cruising cat. It has LAR (low aspect ratio) keels rather than daggerboards, like the Catana range of cats, so it can dry out, much like a bilge keel mono. The space is, well, huge. Performance at anchor is superb. It's a much more stable platform for 'liveaboardability' and that stable platform also equates to much less crew fatigue on long passages. One particular occasion springs to mind that illustrates the point - we were sailing to windward in a pretty stiff breeze (I forget the numbers but it was a damn good '6') and we were standing there in the relative shelter of the cockpit drinking mugs of tea. We watched a 40 ish foot average & newish mono heading in the same direction that had crew clinging on and getting wet. Hour after hour of that on a mono or a cat? We prefer our cat thankyouverymuch. On another occasion, motoring up river, very strong wind against tide, we passed a Contessa 32 (not such a good comparison, I know) pounding into the waves and shifting some water over the decks. We were almost in disbelief because our cat was so stable and dry, although LWL would have played a part here. Nevertheless, we've sailed monos enough to know that a cruising cat is a world apart. I wouldn't go back to monos if I could help it.

As for the risk of capsize, well, it can happen, but thankfully it is relatively rare on cruising cats. Just like it is relatively rare for a mono to sink. Monos do sink, but that alone wouldn't stop me buying one. See above!

We are fortunate that our cat has excellent bridgedeck clearance and this reduces the likelihood of bridgedeck slamming. On the rare occasion it has happened, we are usually sailing close to the wind in pretty choppy conditions. Bearing away a few degrees stops it , and increases speed :D We are a heavily loaded cruising cat but 8 knots is easy peezy, we regularly see 10 knots without really trying and speeds in the low teens are easily achievable with enough wind. But plus or minus 10 knots is comfortable and reduces stress on the boat - we're cruising, not racing.

The enemy of a catamaran is weight and it's an easy trap to fall into with all that space. For that reason I would consider 40' a minimum size for a couple who plan to liveaboard full time. If not full time then you can probably get away with something a little smaller.

Oh, yes, the other enemy of a catamaran is marinas who often charge mono + 50% rates although thankfully some charge standard rates and we make use of them where possible, although the long term plan is to spend more time at anchor as it's such a comfortable platform.

We have gone the other way. From Catamaran to Monohull. We wouldnt go back either! Its like comparing apples and oranges. Making comparisons with one type of cat to a one type of mono just doesnt work. We have passed similar sized catamarans hard on the wind that are hobby horsing and making very poor angles to the wind. The seas were bumpy and everytime the cat went over a wave it was pushed off sideways. We were tucked up in harbour before this cat came in. To the credit of the skipper he actually did beat all the way and arrived eventually. Most cat skippers in those conditions just drop the genoa and put the engines on. In my opinion, you dont buy a cruising cat if you love to sail. They are about accomodation and partying. Unless you buy a high performance daggerboard equipped lightweight machine that has no abilty to carry the weight of cruising gear then the performance is dull apart from down wind where thay are far more comfy than a mono. I can understand why people buy them but a cruising cat such as Lagoons and their ilk are not for me
 
The Catana is a relatively light high performance cat and not necessarily one I would choose for blue water cruising. The Lagoon is also not known for build quality and in my opinion built down to a minimum price and build quality. In fact you have just made my point. There are many different designs and builders in the catamaran market and they are not all the same. Its just like me saying I would always choose an integral keel monohull over one held on with undersize bolts to a hull which is like a flying saucer....... although I note you have one where that keel has not fallen off (yet........)

Ahhh! My signature block only tells part of the story... Did you know that we can no longer amend our sig blocks? (History)

Our BAV 46 Exclusive was built in '97 and was built to spec for a German buyer. It had 2.4 meter lead keel, 60 foot mast, membrane sails etc. It was a very quick boat and pounded in rough seas. We've now exchanged it for a proper monohull RTW cruiser and I would never ever consider trading it for a catamaran.

However, it is my opinion ... :-) and we all know what these are worth! Fair winds
 
I am glad you have now bought a boat that you are happy with and no longer worried about your keel falling off! May you have many years of joy with it. If everyone is happy so am I! Do remember though that just as you have found your ideal, many others have also found theirs and many of those are catamaran owners who say they would never buy "half a boat" again. There is no universal right or wrong in boat design and it depends very largely on the owners preferences. There is no such thing as a perfect boat for everyone and I for one am glad of that. It would be boring if we or our boats were all the same. Enjoy!!
 
I've owned a multi and a mono hull and I'd circle the globe in either. But i wouldn't do it in either a performance cat or one of the RV style cats where they have the windage of a large house. Neither would I do it in my Colvic Watson or a high performance monohull. Lots of monos lost at sea, proportionally probably fewer cats lost at sea but not much in it. Choose the right mono or multi for the job you want to do. But capsizing a cruising (non dagger board) cat that's of the Prout rather than the Lagoon windage would be a momentous task that would involve conditions that would likely sink a mono anyway - we're talking proper full on hurricane not just a force 10.
 
We've been sailing the cat for 8 years now and I can't say that we've ever found the motion of our cat particularly unpleasant in the Med seas. We sailed monohulls before that.

We've also never inverted .... but none of our monohulls ever lost a keel.

There are only two differences that I really notice ..... the first is that the monohulls tend to be more exciting to sail and you feel as though you are going faster, even though you might actually be going slower, and the cat is usually very stable at anchor (we don't use marinas) whereas the monohulls around us have their masts pitching 20 degrees either side of vertical we just sit in the cockpit with our bottle of wine on the table. :)

Richard
 
I delivered a Lagoon 50 across the bay of biscay with a following force 7-8. it was amazing how comfortable it was. I was sat in the saloon with my coffee on the table and chatting with the rest of the crew. we then had to urgently turn and head back in to it and head to La Coruna due to a family emergency of the owner. that was abit bouncy but I can tell you I still managed to leave my coffee on the table without spilling it and we were doing 8 knots into 20ft seas the wind had picked up to 8-9 by this point. I know which boat I want to be on on 99.9% of sailing trips.
 

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