CAT C-18 Acert jumps to neutral

[intouch1]

My Port C-18 Acert 1150 engine with less than 80 hours exhibits a problem of suddenly going into neutral and neutral RPM.
This has happened 6 times over the past 20 hours of operation. When I had the Cat technicians on board to diagnose, we could not replicate the priblem. although they could find the code when hooking up the diagnosis to the engine.

I believe it only sets in if in engine syn mode on the ICH.

Yesterday while cruising, it happened again.

We checked all plugs that go into the engine.

Any clue on what the cause might be or what to check for ?

 

[MapisM]

I believe it only sets in if in engine syn mode on the ICH

Frankly, I very much doubt that anyone, on fully electronic engines like yours, can diagnose the fault any better than the Cat folks with the proper diagnostic program.

But fwiw, I'd rather not use the sync mode regardless of the fact that it can be the culprit or not.
While accelerating/decelerating, it's useless.
And at constant cruise speed, it's better to keep the engines synced manually - which is pretty easy with modern displays, anyway.
In fact, the way electronic sync works is by constantly "hunting" with one of the two engines the rpm of the other one, which is used as a reference.
And that is actually a sub-optimization, compared to manually syncing and leave them do their job.
Particularly in rough sea, of course - when it's totally flat, the logic still stands but the difference is negligible.
I know it looks like a clever feature from the user viewpoint, but technically it isn't.

 

[intouch1]

thanks Mapism:

i personally prefer the Manual controls as well. it's my captain who likes to sync and use only one Lever.
CAT were over and plugged in the engines. they diagnosed that the issue came up 6 times. they were unable to locate the fault itself so far.

besides chosing to use Manual control over syncing, i believe the fault has to be rectified anyway.

 

[MapisM]

i believe the fault has to be rectified anyway.

Absolutely.
I wasn't suggesting to forgive the fault - particularly if still under warranty, maybe?
That doesn't sound like the kind of thing which pops out of nowhere, after thousands of hours...

 

[intouch1]

small update. was just informed by my captain that it happened in Manual mode as well. i believe the Problems seems to be with the ICH rather than with the engine itself....will Keep hunting.
must be an electronic glitch where the ICH (which I believe is fly by wire) sends wrong commands.

the engines are still under warranty.

 

[jfm]

In hurry to get plane so will reply more later. What is ich? What control heads and control system do you have? Zf micro commander? Which control heads? 4200?

 

[intouch1]

hey JFM, safe flight....

it's the Standard CAT Integrated Control Head that Comes with the engines.

 

[intouch1]

Integrated Control Head (ICH)

Engine control heads provide engine throttle control and transmission control through the use of a single mechanical lever for each engine and provides operator input (buttons) for station activation, throttle synchronization, slow vessel mode, trolling mode activation, and gear lockout.

Features and Benefits
•Provides indication of switch status (LED) and is available in both single engine and dual engine configurations
•Contains hardware and software that interfaces between ICH and PCP via a proprietary CAN data link.
•Stand alone control for twin engine application ◦Port engine and transmission control
◦Starboard engine and transmission control

•Available in chrome, black chrome, and gold

Button functions
•Station Active ◦Activates operating station

•Throttle Synchronization ◦Evenly distributes load between engines

•Slow Vessel Mode / Engine speed ramp up ◦Allows engine speed to run at 550 RPM which is below the programmable idle range of 700-1200 RPM
◦Allows user to increase engine speed during Sync Cruise Mode

•Troll ◦Allows user to slip the transmission clutch, creating lower engine speeds

•Neutral / Engine speed ramp down ◦Allows engine to run without engaging transmission
◦Allows user to decrease engine speed during Sync Cruise Mode

 

[jfm]

Got a delay here

Interesting. On a sq65 in Australia that was berthing at the boat show beginning with M, near Perth, an engine went into reverse on its own. the sq65 pushed the pontoon so hard that it sank a small boat the other side of the pontoon. Google the story from last year. I traded emails with the skipper of that boat. I believe that Cat cannot find or reproduce the problem. It had cat c 18 with zf micro commander and I think 4200 control heads

On my current boat last summer I was reversing into berth and engaged neutral to walk down to aft deck to take control there for last 5 metres. Something Ive done a million times. After activating the aft deck controls and getting the led lit up etc, I couldn't get out of neutral. Couldn't select any gear. I ran to both other control stations and activated them in turn but I was still jammed in neutral with both engines running. I told the port guy on the dock I would shortly hit his quay, which I did at half a knot or whatever, no damage.

I decided it had to software so I turned off both engines and all power to the control systems this doing a full reboot, and it worked fine and has never happened again

Different symptoms from yours but it looks like these glitches can occur.

 

[intouch1]

that is actually my main area of concern...that this issue somehow results in catasrophic loss of control.....

 

[MapisM]

Aye, these modern engines are a real pita.
I'll tell you what. Since today I'm feeling particularly altruistic, I'm willing to swap my old tub with the first owner of a C32 or C18 powered boat who sends me a PM.
You might not think too much of her at first sight, but I can grant you that her throttle steel cables are bullet proof.

 

[intouch1]

culprit located by pure coincidence....

went to the boat today with CAT technician and mechanic. diagnostics hooked up etc. started port engine....upon turning ignition on port engine, the starboard engine was throttled a bit....retried that several times. always port affecting starboard. not the other way around. anyway noted that issue and headed out of marina not determined enough to consider this being the actual Problem.

we cruised for about 1.5 hours at various Speeds manually using throttle and syncing. switching syng Lever between pot and starboard....nothing happened all going well and we are unable to replicate the proble.

hooked up diagnostics Show no anomalies.

while having a Little break on the water to scratch our heads as to what the issue could be and thinking of all items that are hooked to the same curcuit upstream and Downstream, i walked up towards the controls, put the throttles in gear and Forward and shook the starboard ignition key....there it happened...eport engine jumps out of gear and goes into neutral revs....

if not for absolute pure coincidence we could have torn the whole boat apart and not found a Problem......unbelievable..

my dealer is over tomorrow to tighten up both egnition locks and i should be happy sailing from then on......

 

[rafiki_]

culprit located by pure coincidence....

went to the boat today with CAT technician and mechanic. diagnostics hooked up etc. started port engine....upon turning ignition on port engine, the starboard engine was throttled a bit....retried that several times. always port affecting starboard. not the other way around. anyway noted that issue and headed out of marina not determined enough to consider this being the actual Problem.

we cruised for about 1.5 hours at various Speeds manually using throttle and syncing. switching syng Lever between pot and starboard....nothing happened all going well and we are unable to replicate the proble.

hooked up diagnostics Show no anomalies.

while having a Little break on the water to scratch our heads as to what the issue could be and thinking of all items that are hooked to the same curcuit upstream and Downstream, i walked up towards the controls, put the throttles in gear and Forward and shook the starboard ignition key....there it happened...eport engine jumps out of gear and goes into neutral revs....

if not for absolute pure coincidence we could have torn the whole boat apart and not found a Problem......unbelievable..

my dealer is over tomorrow to tighten up both egnition locks and i should be happy sailing from then on......

Interesting. When you say tighten the locks, what actually is the root cause of the problem?

 

[intouch1]

Interesting. When you say tighten the locks, what actually is the root cause of the problem?

we have not actually accessed the ignition lock from behind the console yet. i will leave that for tomorrow for my dealer to fix. but the Problem seems to emanate from a loose Fitting to the ignition lock that then results in the commands going to the engine go funny.

 

[Latestarter1]

we have not actually accessed the ignition lock from behind the console yet. i will leave that for tomorrow for my dealer to fix. but the Problem seems to emanate from a loose Fitting to the ignition lock that then results in the commands going to the engine go funny.

Ah ha, because faulty ignition was initiating engine command no fault code was being flagged on Cat ET. Slap on the wrists for tec,

Great result.

 

[MapisM]

Great result.

+1.
That's the sort of thing which could have driven also the Cat folks mad for ages, if it weren't for your finding!

 

[rafiki_]

we have not actually accessed the ignition lock from behind the console yet. i will leave that for tomorrow for my dealer to fix. but the Problem seems to emanate from a loose Fitting to the ignition lock that then results in the commands going to the engine go funny.

OK, understood. I will be interested to hear the final outcome.

 

[intouch1]

fix was done today. there was a cable that was Kind of loose.....

it still baffles me that we located this Problem by pure coincidence. trying to find the source could have taken Ages with going over all cabling, wiring looms, ecu's etc.

not knowing what the fault is, made my captain and myself a bit insecure, as we did not know what could happen next. could we lose both engines ? would the engines carry out command that was not instructed ? there were many many 'what if's'

caterpillar techs were shaking their heads just as we were and probably thought we are idiots as the Problem never occured when cruising with them on 2 separate occasions for a total of 3 hours in all weather conditions (except rain )