Cat boats

[wombat88]

I wonder...

Are there any American cat boats in the UK or even nearby in the EU? Things like the 18' or 22' boats by Marshall Marine? I have always had a soft spot for them...

 

[NealB]

I wonder...

Are there any American cat boats in the UK or even nearby in the EU? Things like the 18' or 22' boats by Marshall Marine? I have always had a soft spot for them...

A friend of mine used to own a beautiful David Moss built catboat called Felix.

I sailed her a couple of times on the Tamar.

Once was in fairly strong winds, gusting to about F7. We had two reefs in, and she was fairly heavy to steer, with her huge barge type unbalanced rudder.

What a head turner: an exquisite example of wooden building.

Edit.... I know he is in touch with a guy in Netherlands who has built a catboat. I could try to get some contact details if you wish?

 

[Tranona]

There is a good article in this month's Classic Boat on a new build catboat in UK. Alan Hill the well known designer has had a 22' one for years - been featured in various mags.

Not really common here because they are not really suitable for our conditions, or rather small centreboard dayboats and weekend cruiser developed differently here than in the US.

 

[alahol2]

Here's one... http://www.tavywoodenboats.co.uk/boats-dinghies/new-16ft-catboat/

Freedom did a few cat ketches.

 

[DownWest]

There is a German Co. who have built some. The biggest is 21ft and the first one of the size is at our local marina. A very substantial boat for the length. Strip planked in wood.
There is also a French outfit that makes water ballasted GRP ones. I will dig up a link.

 

[NealB]

There's a couple of small ones for sale:

- https://www.andyseedhouseboats.co.uk/boats/2379-Esther

- http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=513636

I had a look at 'Esther' a few weeks ago. To me, she had great appeal, and is a really big, little boat.

Either could be really great fun if back to basics, gentle pottering (and maybe camping) is your thing.

 

[wombat88]

Someone in the Totnes area built one a few years ago. I have no details but I think it was for sale at one point.

The sort of thing I hanker after is here:

http://www.marshallcat.com/html/18-_sanderling.html

and

http://www.catboats.org/page/Cats4Sale_170

Indeed there are loads of them on the other side.

Yes, the rudder is an enormous thing and the tiller is not to be trifled with. We sailed a little one with a tiny cabin around the Sausalito area a few years back and I was smitten.

As Tranona says, a different approach.

 

[Seajet]

There's a couple of small ones for sale:

- https://www.andyseedhouseboats.co.uk/boats/2379-Esther

- http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=513636

I had a look at 'Esther' a few weeks ago. To me, she had great appeal, and is a really big, little boat.

Either could be really great fun if back to basics, gentle pottering (and maybe camping) is your thing.

I once visited Seedhouse's setup and was horrified ' we don't do inventories, just strip every boat then you can buy it back in the chandlery section - the trailer got it here along a couple of miles of backroads, that's your warranty '

but I have to say Esther looks a steal and great fun for the right person, she even still has engine and fenders - I wonder if the Dinghy Cruising Association are aware of her, I meet their members now and again as they stop off for a rest and a pint but I'm not a member, I wonder if Dancrane of this parish is ?

 

[NealB]

I once visited Seedhouse's setup and was horrified ' we don't do inventories, just strip every boat then you can buy it back in the chandlery section - the trailer got it here along a couple of miles of backroads, that's your warranty '

but I have to say Esther looks a steal and great fun for the right person, she even still has engine and fenders - I wonder if the Dinghy Cruising Association are aware of her, I meet their members now and again as they stop off for a rest and a pint but I'm not a member, I wonder if Dancrane of this parish is ?

Andy ... I love Woodbridge as a whole, and always either start or end a pleasant walk at Andy Seedhouse's place.

Yes, he has loads of, to my mind rather optimistically priced, and forlorn looking, junk, but every now and then you'll find a little gem tucked away.

'Esther' is one: I was sorely tempted.

Anyway, his yard is a characterful antidote to so many other antiseptic boat sales sites.

 

[Arcady]

I believe there were a few of the Mark Ellis designed Nonsuch cat boats sold into the UK. They seem to be well regarded by those that have sailed them.

 

[Old Thady]

Apart from tradition, is there a reason why cat boats are rare in the British Isles? Are they somehow less suited to the wind or sea conditions we have here?

 

[Tranona]

Apart from tradition, is there a reason why cat boats are rare in the British Isles? Are they somehow less suited to the wind or sea conditions we have here?

They are very wide, flat bottomed and single big gaff sail. They derive from working boats in the Cape Cod area which is shallow and generally light winds and flat seas.

It is common for pleasure boats to be developed from working boat forms because these are what have proved best in local conditions. To understand how this results in different kinds of boats just look at the west country types such as Falmouth Oyster boats, pilot boats, packet boats etc and compare with east coast bawley type fishing boats. Not difficult to understand why they are so different when you look at the local sea conditions.

So, yes cat boats could be used here, just as they are popular on the west coast of US (despite the form never having been used there for working boats) but there is little incentive when there are perfectly adequate local designs available. If you want some reading on the subject then some of Maurice Griffiths books such as Little Ships and Shoal Waters look at the development of pleasure boats from working boats, particularly with reference to US compared with UK in the 1920s and 30s. The Carrick and Henderson book on John G Alden is a mine of information on the subject covering both small day boats and cruisers mostly derived from NE USA fishing boat designs.

 

[Alfredmylne]

I owned an 18ft Catboat some years ago which was based on a design by the American boat designer Frank Bulger but built on the South Coast. I think the design was called a “Lynx”.
This was one of his more conventional designs compared to some of his flights of fancy. It never sailed particularly well as it was too beamy and from an aesthetic viewpoint I never thought it looked right with the mast right up in the bow. It did however attract a lot of attention as everyone else seem to think it looked good “in a different way.”
It was sold to someone who took it up to the North West of Scotland. If anyone knows if it’s still being sailed (Clarice Annie, dark green hull, red gaff rig sail) I’d love to know.

 

[DownWest]

On the beam bit.. Cat boats are usually about half the length as beam, so wide by European thinking.

 

[wombat88]

On the beam bit.. Cat boats are usually about half the length as beam, so wide by European thinking.

Indeed, and they carry that beam well aft. Makes for a big cockpit in which to heave at that tiller attached to the enormous rudder..

 

[claymore]

http://www.davidmossboatbuilders.co.uk/

 

[Greenheart]

I wonder if the Dinghy Cruising Association are aware of her, I meet their members now and again as they stop off for a rest and a pint but I'm not a member, I wonder if Dancrane of this parish is?

Not yet...but after recent set-backs, dinghy cruising is my future, for a while...so I might join the DCA rather than cross the mighty Solent unaccompanied.

I always loved catboats (and almost all trad American boats). That vast beam, presumably for vast picnic-baskets, and possibly vast crew-members.

When I saw the big leisurely catboat in Jaws 2, forty years ago, I began grudging the economical approach that limits the proportions of European design.

Although, U.S. sites seem to show a great number of cheap boats compared to witheringly costly high-tech stuff, this side of the pond. I'd love a catboat.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

This rather pretty little one popped up on Apollo Duck today.

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=545488

 

[Tranona]

This rather pretty little one popped up on Apollo Duck today.

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=545488

That is actually a sharpie which was originally more common in the Chesapeake Bay area. Hull is nothing like a cat boat being long and thin rather than short and fat, but the rig is similar with unstayed masts and gaff sails. Cat boats are usually single mast, although sometimes the larger ones had a mizzen to try and balance an otherwise unbalanced sail plan.

Sharpies are great boats though for shallow water areas like much of the east coast of US right down to Florida. Lend themselves very well to DIY build - much easier form to plank than the curvaceous cat boat.

 

[DownWest]

This rather pretty little one popped up on Apollo Duck today.

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat.phtml?id=545488

NIS Sharpies have a pretty impressive rep for bad weather. Same designer as the Laser. There is an account of one crossing the Bass Straight in 50kts winds.