Cardiff Marina to Uphill Marina - Newbie Help Please

[NewbieNelson]

Hi All,

I have my Halcyon23 a 23ft sailing boat moored in Cardiff Marina. I am planning to move her across the Bristol Channel to Uphill Marina, in Somerset this coming Monday afternoon. Is there anything I should be weary of and watchful for. I am a newbie in the sailing world and this will be my first major trip. I will only be motoring across the channel as I need some mast work done and cannot put up the sails. Any help or advice would be gratefully appreciated. I have already found out that I need to contact the Barrage to raise the Pont y Werin when leaving the berth. Then contact them to open the barrage, but that's all I know.

 

[graham]

Hi . you can only get into uphill close to High tide . I would recommend arriving in the River Axe about 1 hour before High tide. All the berths dry out .

There is a buoyed channel from out in Weston Bay that leads you into the river.
Definitely dont attempt to go in once the ebb tide has started. You will be fighting a strong current and shallow water getting shallower quickly.

Weston Bay can be rough with.a fresh wind blowing in pick a quiet day with light wind and suitable tide times.

PS monday forecast is currently predicting Wly winds up to 23 knots ,this is not suitable for a beginner doing that passage.

I strongly recommend you try and get an experienced person to help, the Bristol Channel can be a dangerous place for the unwary.

 

[NewbieNelson]

Hi . you can only get into uphill close to High tide . I would recommend arriving in the River Axe about 1 hour before High tide. All the berths dry out .

There is a buoyed channel from out in Weston Bay that leads you into the river.
Definitely dont attempt to go in once the ebb tide has started. You will be fighting a strong current and shallow water getting shallower quickly.

Weston Bay can be rough with.a fresh wind blowing in pick a quiet day with light wind and suitable tide times.

PS monday forecast is currently predicting Wly winds up to 23 knots ,this is not suitable for a beginner doing that passage.

I strongly recommend you try and get an experienced person to help, the Bristol Channel can be a dangerous place for the unwary.

Hi Graham,

Thank you for your advice. I have decided to postpone the trip until more favorable weather as you are suggesting, I see in Windy that wind gusts of up 26knots are now being expected. So I will stay in Cardiff for the time being.

Lee

 

[MisterBaxter]

The problem you've got sailing from.Cardiff to Uphill is that you want to arrive at Uphill maybe an hour before high tide, but for the two hours before that, there's a strong tidal flow running more or less north. A Halcyon 23 under motor is going to be making maybe 5 knots, but in places the flow at half tide reaches 3 knots or more.
You'd want to plot this on a chart hour by hour, but broadly speaking if you set out from Cardiff heading roughly towards Flatholm at hw -4 hrs, you'll be carried on the tide to make a course over the ground closer to due east. Then as the tide slows down, your course will curve south to bring you into Weston Bay.
If you get there too soon, in calm conditions you can anchor up close to Brean Down to wait for the tide.
I wouldn't go anywhere in the Bristol Channel without a good anchor on maybe 30 metres of chain and 30 of rope, myself.

 

[NewbieNelson]

The problem you've got sailing from.Cardiff to Uphill is that you want to arrive at Uphill maybe an hour before high tide, but for the two hours before that, there's a strong tidal flow running more or less north. A Halcyon 23 under motor is going to be making maybe 5 knots, but in places the flow at half tide reaches 3 knots or more.
You'd want to plot this on a chart hour by hour, but broadly speaking if you set out from Cardiff heading roughly towards Flatholm at hw -4 hrs, you'll be carried on the tide to make a course over the ground closer to due east. Then as the tide slows down, your course will curve south to bring you into Weston Bay.
If you get there too soon, in calm conditions you can anchor up close to Brean Down to wait for the tide.
I wouldn't go anywhere in the Bristol Channel without a good anchor on maybe 30 metres of chain and 30 of rope, myself.

Hi Mister, Thank you. I will take all this in to account and look for a date later in this month. I will be taking her down to the bay and running her around for a few hours prior to test the new alternator is working and the water pump.

 

[MisterBaxter]

The other thing to be aware of when you're sailing around that bit of the Bristol Channel is that when the wind runs against the tide it can kick up quite a nasty chop very rapidly, so that sea conditions worsen very fast when the tide changes. Uphill to Minehead in a westerly can be unpleasant, and there are some strange patches around Steepholm that kick up like crazy with the wind against the tide.

 

[MikeCalypso]

I keep my boat at Uphill. Yes definitely only cross in light winds and probably smaller tides as youre new to this, won't have sails and be relying on motor. You want a nice sea state. But don't get overly worried, if the weather is calm it can also be very pleasant out there.

But yes you'll need to do the timings as suggested above and make sure you account for the tide in your heading. It feels very counter intuitive to not point where you want to go but with a chart plotter or tablet you'll see clearly your actual course over ground.

Uphill is well marked to get into the river but it is worth knowing the turn into the Pil for the marina and the lay of the river. If at all possible visit first and walk the river bank from the Marin to the sailing club at low tide to get a feel for it.

Having said the crossing will be easier on a smaller tide, you'll need a bigger tide to get right up to the marina and will need to do that just at the top of the tide. The marina will advise.on good timings.

Lots to be careful about but also totally doable. You have to learn somehow so make sure you're very confident about the engine, choose a calm day, do good planning and you should be good.

 

[NewbieNelson]

I plan on motoring across the Bristol Channel at some point this month when I get a calm day and good tides. I have had to replace the water pump with a standalone electric pump after seeing the pump that is a direct replacement is around £500 and like rocking horse s*** and the mechanical pump is shot. I can buy the replacement parts to service it but I cannot for the life of me get it to come apart, I think it's just too badly corroded and cant find any info on how to strip the pump.
So I will be running the girl in Cardiff bay under the protection of the barrage for a few hours to check engine is being cooled properly with the electric pump and not over heating before I set out across the channel, although I have no temp gauges for the engine. I have already tested the pump in the berth and ran the engine for an hour with no problems, I just want to get her out in to the bay to open the engine up with higher revs for piece of mind. Once she is in her new home then I will look at replacing the pump with an original part. The engine is a reconditioned Yanmar YSM, so I may even go for a newer engine fitting at a later date.

 

[NewbieNelson]

I keep my boat at Uphill. Yes definitely only cross in light winds and probably smaller tides as youre new to this, won't have sails and be relying on motor. You want a nice sea state. But don't get overly worried, if the weather is calm it can also be very pleasant out there.

But yes you'll need to do the timings as suggested above and make sure you account for the tide in your heading. It feels very counter intuitive to not point where you want to go but with a chart plotter or tablet you'll see clearly your actual course over ground.

Uphill is well marked to get into the river but it is worth knowing the turn into the Pil for the marina and the lay of the river. If at all possible visit first and walk the river bank from the Marin to the sailing club at low tide to get a feel for it.

Having said the crossing will be easier on a smaller tide, you'll need a bigger tide to get right up to the marina and will need to do that just at the top of the tide. The marina will advise.on good timings.

Lots to be careful about but also totally doable. You have to learn somehow so make sure you're very confident about the engine, choose a calm day, do good planning and you should be good.

#
Hi Mike, then hopefully we will be neighbours

I use Savvy Navy for my chart plotting on my tablet. I am not questioning my ability, I can do anything I set my mind to. I do however question my engine lol. See reply to topic below about water pump.

Lee

 

[mattonthesea]

I find these things (sorry it's in Swedish) useful for watching temperatures
https://cdon.se/hushallsapparater/ir-termometer-infrarod-c105902802913135

 

[oldmanofthehills]

It rolls with steep seas in an onshore wind between about 0.5nm out till the pink and white Juicy Buoy which marks the start of the river channel. In F5 gusting F6 I have surfed in nervously using my full 25hp as far as the dog leg and also battered my way out leaping like an ill formed grp dolphin.

I have in earlier boat also failed to allow for the tide and ended up by Sand point unable to stem the tide enough to get back to Uphill entrance until nearly HW.

One can anchor by the notch in Brean Down if arriving early but except in very calm weather its so lumpy that one might as well just make a few circuits of the Weston bay.

We used to lock out from Cardiff Barrage about 4.5hrs before HW Weston and maintain 4.5 to 5kn for the crossing

 

[NewbieNelson]

What would be a reasonable wind speed for my first trip motoring across the channel? I am looking at doing it at the end of this month, most likely last week of July.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Less than F6. If in doubt motor and use F3 but F4 from SW would be great sailing

 

[NewbieNelson]

Hi Oldman, so as a newbie I don't really want to be motoring in anymore than 10knts of wind in a SW direction?

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Its not quite Sw to uphill. A westerly would be fine and only a northerly would be hard. Our old boat wouldnot move in only 10kt but the trots were hard above 14kt. This summer rubbish and we are facing f5+ or f2 form salcombe to guersey, but you are probably wise to stick with f3 cardiff to uphill and motor as first crossing

All the best

 

[38mess]

Hi Oldman, so as a newbie I don't really want to be motoring in anymore than 10knts of wind in a SW direction?

Have you done the trip yet? It all makes sense once you get out of the barrage and you can actually see what you are up against.

 

[NewbieNelson]

Thanks guys. I took the boat out yesterday and gave her a good run in the basin but didn't go through the barrage. I got 4.2 knots out of her at full throttle and she handled really well and felt totally safe in her. My next trip out will be moving the boat the week after next to her new home at Uphill in Somerset, I will be motoring and not sailing.

Can anyone help me with a long range forecast so that I can get prepared. The dates of the move are any one of the following depending on which would be best for me to make the crossing.

Tuesday 30th July
Thursday 1st August
Friday 2nd August

As I am still a newbie I would appreciate some help from you old sea dogs in working out the best time and date to make the crossing please?

 

[Snoopy463]

I don’t want to be a killjoy or ultra negative, but should you consider getting your boat taken to Uphill on the back of a lorry?
You have a jury rigged water pump on your engine and a damaged headsail foil after hitting the Pont y Werin bridge. You’re a newcomer to sailing and haven't been through the barrage yet.
Under benign conditions, the trip you want to make is not dangerous, but if your engine packs in you have no other means of propulsion.
The upper reaches of the Bristol Channel is not the place to be in a drifting 23 footer. Sorry, but someone had to say it.

 

[ProDave]

I got 4.2 knots out of her at full throttle and she handled really well

If flat water I can get 6 knots under motor from my (different) 23 footer. I can get 4.2 knots at little more than tickover.

I question if you have enough power to run against a foul tide or rough water?

 

[europe172]

Thanks guys. I took the boat out yesterday and gave her a good run in the basin but didn't go through the barrage. I got 4.2 knots out of her at full throttle and she handled really well and felt totally safe in her. My next trip out will be moving the boat the week after next to her new home at Uphill in Somerset, I will be motoring and not sailing.

Can anyone help me with a long range forecast so that I can get prepared. The dates of the move are any one of the following depending on which would be best for me to make the crossing.

Tuesday 30th July
Thursday 1st August
Friday 2nd August

As I am still a newbie I would appreciate some help from you old sea dogs in working out the best time and date to make the crossing please?

Why not lock out for a couple of hours , motor round , practice anchor and build some experience, learn how your boat handles and experience the tidal conditions