Carbon Dioxide extinguishers on boats

CharlesSwallow

CharlesSwallow

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I need to service and replace some of my extinguishers this summer.

Currently they are all Dry Powder. However, having recently read the story of a couple who suffered an engine fire and couldn't get the engine started again because of the large amount of powder ingested by it and the residue all around the engine space. Not being able to get underway again would be a real disadvantage in GREECE where any disabled yacht brought into a Port Police or hellenic Coastguard controlled port would need a certificate of seaworthiness from the local surveyor, who, more often tha not is the harbourmaster's cousin! Dry Powder would also no doubt create an unholy mess in the event of a fire in the accomodation.

So, is there another way? I propose to replace the DP extinguishers stored down below with CO2 types but keep dry powder or even foam types for use outside where any air movement would render CO2s next to useless.

Anyway, I thought that I would seek the wisdom of the many experienced members here before embarking on the replacement scheme.

Chas
 
I keep a CO2 extinguisher in a locker accessible from the companionway with the intention it will only ever be used as a last resort from the cockpit.
Using CO2 makes the below-decks a hole in the water filled with a gas which does not sustain life.
 
Gordonmc said:
I keep a CO2 extinguisher in a locker accessible from the companionway with the intention it will only ever be used as a last resort from the cockpit.
Using CO2 makes the below-decks a hole in the water filled with a gas which does not sustain life.
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I think the fumes that come from a burning engine bay are not exactly healthy either!


It is normally inhaling CO and smoke that gets you, rather than a lack of oxygen.
Is a fire put out with CO2 more likely to reignite as the CO2 disperses than one which has been put out with foam or powder?

Maybe keep one powder one as a last resort?
Most important extinguisher is the fire blanket near the cooker IMHO.
 
IMHO is if you have a CO2 fire extinguisher it should be fitted inside the engine enclosure with a remote operating lever outside so that you do not have to open the engine enclosure and allow more O2 in to feed the fire and make the CO2 more effective.

Two remote CO2 extinguishers are better in case the first one failed.
 
I would have thought an auto halon replacement for the engineroon then foam as a back up. We used CO2 flooding in nuclear submarines in dock but you need an awful lot of gas. For a yacht you would probably need tens of kilos of the stuff to be effective.

I agree dry powder is an engineroon no no and not that nice elsewhere.
 
lw395 said:
Is a fire put out with CO2 more likely to reignite as the CO2 disperses than one which has been put out with foam or powder?
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I believe so, yes, as the CO2 has less cooling effect and also disperses much more readily.

lw395 said:
Maybe keep one powder one as a last resort?
Click to expand...

Personally I'd use foam for that.

The only benefit to powder that I can see is that it's relatively cheap. The Crash Test video of it creating a total white-out, plus the fact that it seems to damage a lot of materials, has ruled it out for me on the boat. I've replaced mine with foam.

(I do still have small cheapo Lidl powder extinguishers in my workshop and kitchen at home.)

Pete
 
theoldsalt said:
Carbon dioxide is a much better solution than Dry Powder for the engine room and a suitable replacement for the now illegal Halon.
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CO₂ is fairly limited at the best of times, it is only any use for Class B (flammable liquid) and where there is electric current present.

I'd go for FE-36 which was developed by Dupont specifically as a Halon replacement.

On the other hand, CO₂ extinguishers are much more fun to muck about with :D
 
I did a 5 day marine fire fighting three weeks ago and I was highly impressed with how easily a 9 litre hand held CO2 extinguisher killed the 2 square metre oil pan fire (diesel and kerosene mix!!). This was in windy conditions and I had thought that the CO2 would be easily blown away, but it just sat on top of the fire making it very difficult for the training staff to relight the fire for the next "volunteer", although they managed eventually.
Needless to say, foam was the best, but I would personally rate the CO2 as more effective than the dry powder.
I'd also agree that the halon replacement automatic fire extinguishers would be best of all for an engine room but CO2 would be a very close second choice.
The point about CO2 filling a hole in the sea with a gas that doesn't support life apparently isn't actually true as the concentration needed to smother the base of a fire leaves enough breathing air above it.
I was a bit surprised at just how difficult it was to extinguish the straw and wood fires with a 1.5 inch fire hose at 120 psi in an enclosed space, we were in full fire fighting gear with breathing apparatus and the amount of steam generated made things a bit warm and the visibility much worse, and the quantity of water required was quite amazing. Despite the 49C ambient temperature I was very glad I was in the suit!:D
 
The point about CO2 in a boat engine room is that it would be contained inside the engine room with only a little leakage of CO2 out and air in. Very effect. CO2 is less effect with the hatch to the engine room open but on most boats still fairly contained.
 
PaulJS said:
I did a 5 day marine fire fighting three weeks ago and I was highly impressed with how easily a 9 litre hand held CO2 extinguisher killed the 2 square metre oil pan fire (diesel and kerosene mix!!). This was in windy conditions and I had thought that the CO2 would be easily blown away, but it just sat on top of the fire making it very difficult for the training staff to relight the fire for the next "volunteer", although they managed eventually.
Needless to say, foam was the best, but I would personally rate the CO2 as more effective than the dry powder.
I'd also agree that the halon replacement automatic fire extinguishers would be best of all for an engine room but CO2 would be a very close second choice.
The point about CO2 filling a hole in the sea with a gas that doesn't support life apparently isn't actually true as the concentration needed to smother the base of a fire leaves enough breathing air above it.
I was a bit surprised at just how difficult it was to extinguish the straw and wood fires with a 1.5 inch fire hose at 120 psi in an enclosed space, we were in full fire fighting gear with breathing apparatus and the amount of steam generated made things a bit warm and the visibility much worse, and the quantity of water required was quite amazing. Despite the 49C ambient temperature I was very glad I was in the suit!:D
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Good info from hands-on training. Personally I hope to never get closer to the real thing.
Thanks for sharing!
 
Rogershaw said:
The point about CO2 in a boat engine room is that it would be contained inside the engine room with only a little leakage of CO2 out and air in. Very effect. CO2 is less effect with the hatch to the engine room open but on most boats still fairly contained.
Click to expand...

but still probaly not as effective as halon replacement auto extinguishers.

The deisel fire demo was probably because they put the first fire out before the fuel got too hot, try the same with the fuel heated till it flashes over, I suspect the result will be very different. I have seen the same fire put out safely with water but that is not recomended either
 
PaulJS said:
I did a 5 day marine fire fighting three weeks ago and I was highly impressed with how easily a 9 litre hand held CO2 extinguisher killed the 2 square metre oil pan fire (diesel and kerosene mix!!). This was in windy conditions and I had thought that the CO2 would be easily blown away, but it just sat on top of the fire making it very difficult for the training staff to relight the fire for the next "volunteer", although they managed eventually.
Needless to say, foam was the best, but I would personally rate the CO2 as more effective than the dry powder.
I'd also agree that the halon replacement automatic fire extinguishers would be best of all for an engine room but CO2 would be a very close second choice.
The point about CO2 filling a hole in the sea with a gas that doesn't support life apparently isn't actually true as the concentration needed to smother the base of a fire leaves enough breathing air above it.
I was a bit surprised at just how difficult it was to extinguish the straw and wood fires with a 1.5 inch fire hose at 120 psi in an enclosed space, we were in full fire fighting gear with breathing apparatus and the amount of steam generated made things a bit warm and the visibility much worse, and the quantity of water required was quite amazing. Despite the 49C ambient temperature I was very glad I was in the suit!:D
Click to expand...

Just the sort of information I was looking for. Now just need to get the local Greek chandlers to stock them!

Many thanks

Chas
 
Rogershaw said:
The point about CO2 in a boat engine room is that it would be contained inside the engine room with only a little leakage of CO2 out and air in. Very effect. CO2 is less effect with the hatch to the engine room open but on most boats still fairly contained.
Click to expand...

Most yachts have an extinguisher hole in the engine hatch, often with a cross-shaped slot cut in the insulation to solve this very problem and some extinguishers have, or can easily be appended with, an extended nozzle to poke through this hole.

Another reason for my making the original post is that a neighbour has just had the engine room (2X 1200SHP) and bow thruster* extinguisher systems serviced at fantastic cost and I thought what a collossal mess would be caused if ever he had either of them activated.

Chas

* incidentally, did you know that this is a very common site of an on-board fire?
 
CO2 Extinguishers

The biggest disadvantage is the great pressure that it must be stored under. This is reflected in the cost of the cylinder and pressure testing of the vessel when service is due.
CO2 like halon has a huge cooling ability in being discharged as well as the CO2 simply denying oxygen.
I would imagine that best effect would be where you can direct the extinguisher at the heat of the fire. But apparently CO2 flooding is OK also. olewill
 
For some reason, CO2 are banned here in Portugal, for use on boats. I looked at price for having an FE36 (halon replacement) sent from UK but then found gas not available here for servicing/recharge! Ended up with 3L foam with flexible tube outlet which can be poked through finger hole in engine bay door.
 
CharlesSwallow said:
Just the sort of information I was looking for. Now just need to get the local Greek chandlers to stock them!

Many thanks

Chas
Click to expand...

Solas in Kos Marina will supply you with one. However Koula is very nice and will sell you anything but anything you get will come on the ferry from Athens office /store .Also have a look at the size before you buy - not much difference in cost between large and small but the big office type one is long and heavy and has an awkward nozzle and hose attachment which could get tangled up .

I exchanged my big black one for a shorter red one about 2 ft long and it stows away very nicely in a locker near the engine compartment in my cockpit ready for a quick draw out should I get a fuel fire in the engine compartment . There is a hole in the side i can stick it in with out taking the engine cover off

Unfortunately if you dont get them serviced regularly due to the fact that an engine fire is once in a blue mood then you have the problem of forgetting about a cylinder with gas charged at a very high pressure and letting it corrode somewhere in the bilges with much greater risk than an engine fire . I dont really like large pressurised containers
 
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