Car diesel and boats

[blackbeard]

With all the many posts on the Great Diesel Debate, AFAICS no one has answered a simple question:

Consider a boat like mine. I assume this is a fairly common set-up. A mighty Yanmar 1GM and a 25 litre fuel tank. Typically uses about 50 litres of fuel per year, so to a rough approximation fuel tank is effectively emptied and re-filled twice per year. Very easy to fill a canister when I re-fuel my car, and for 50 litres/year I am not fussed about duty. Engine does not care about sulphur content so the only potential problem with road diesel is the FAME (bio) content.

Will changing the fuel tank contents about twice a year suffice to get over the fuel-with-FAME deterioration-in-storage problem?

If there is a potential problem, would a little Fuel Set (or whatever equivalent you fancy) suffice to solve it?

 

[Angele]

Presumably the main issue is not how many times during the season that the contents are cycled through, but how long over the winter she spends laid up.

 

[PaulGooch]

My guess is you'd be OK.

We regularly have diesel cars sitting around for months. I've got one sitting here now that hasn't been used for over a year.

Boats in other countries seem to be dong fine.

 

[Chris_Robb]

My guess is you'd be OK.

We regularly have diesel cars sitting around for months. I've got one sitting here now that hasn't been used for over a year.

Boats in other countries seem to be dong fine.

Paul - you should not give advice like that if you don't know. Many other countries Marine White diesel is FAME free (except Germany!). It is a substantial problem, but in such a small fuel tank (25lts) it can be drained and cleaned easily. With larger tanks especially those that cannot be cleaned easily, it is not a sensible thing to do. Fame is relatively new in diesel so history proves nothing. Esso also avoids putting FAME in road fuel over the winter.

 

[PaulGooch]

Paul - you should not give advice like that if you don't know. Many other countries Marine White diesel is FAME free (except Germany!). It is a substantial problem, but in such a small fuel tank (25lts) it can be drained and cleaned easily. With larger tanks especially those that cannot be cleaned easily, it is not a sensible thing to do. Fame is relatively new in diesel so history proves nothing. Esso also avoids putting FAME in road fuel over the winter.

I gave no advice, i said "my guess is".

I stated that i have cars sitting around for months on end, as does every other car dealer and they give no trouble. That is a fact.

So you are saying the French, Dutch, Belgium, Spanish, Greek etc fuel is all FAME free, none of them are using road fuel ?

 

[Chris_Robb]

I gave no advice, i said "my guess is".

I stated that i have cars sitting around for months on end, as does every other car dealer and they give no trouble. That is a fact.

So you are saying the French, Dutch, Belgium, Spanish, Greek etc fuel is all FAME free, none of them are using road fuel ?

It is also fact that Fame has not been in road diesel long - therefore your fact is probably irrelevant.

No FAME in French, Dutch, but not Greek, and have no idea on Spain

 

[PaulGooch]

It is also fact that Fame has not been in road diesel long - therefore your fact is probably irrelevant.

No FAME in French, Dutch, but not Greek, and have no idea on Spain

Not long ? When exactly did we start using biofuels in road diesel then ?

So French and Dutch "marine" fuel is really white road diesel ? Are they having significant problems with that ?

 

[Stork_III]

Not long ? When exactly did we start using biofuels in road diesel then ?

So French and Dutch "marine" fuel is really white road diesel ? Are they having significant problems with that ?

If its got no FAME it is not road diesel. Glad to hear Dutch marine is FAME free if its true.

 

[st599]

My guess is you'd be OK.

We regularly have diesel cars sitting around for months. I've got one sitting here now that hasn't been used for over a year.

Boats in other countries seem to be dong fine.

When was FAME added to the forecourts - last year wasn't it?

So all your saying is that based on an invalid test, you reckon it'll be ok.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Not long ? When exactly did we start using biofuels in road diesel then ?

So French and Dutch "marine" fuel is really white road diesel ? Are they having significant problems with that ?

FAME in road diesel in the UK was introduced in 2011 following the EU directive. The mere fact that this is one of the most un-green fuels around and deprives the world of a much needed food source, doesn't seem to worry EU politicians.

French and Dutch Marine fuel is NOT just white road diesel, it is FAME free. There was a post - perhaps earlier in this thread where someone had listed all the northern European countries and their fuel policy.

If you talk to a supplier like WP Fuels - just ask them about the dangers in marine fuels that FAME poses. QUite why Germany does not give a FAME free white, I have no idea. For larger boats this is not a trivial matter, especially as the bloody designers don't give any access to the tanks in many!!!

 

[PaulGooch]

FAME in road diesel in the UK was introduced in 2011 following the EU directive. The mere fact that this is one of the most un-green fuels around and deprives the world of a much needed food source, doesn't seem to worry EU politicians.

French and Dutch Marine fuel is NOT just white road diesel, it is FAME free. There was a post - perhaps earlier in this thread where someone had listed all the northern European countries and their fuel policy.

If you talk to a supplier like WP Fuels - just ask them about the dangers in marine fuels that FAME poses. QUite why Germany does not give a FAME free white, I have no idea. For larger boats this is not a trivial matter, especially as the bloody designers don't give any access to the tanks in many!!!

Not entirely clear what you meant when you said "No FAME in French, Dutch, but not Greek, and have no idea on Spain "

So you mean French and Dutch are FAME free and Greek has FAME ?

So all the Greek boats are having problems, same with the Germans ?

 

[Old Troll]

Old Troll

I have a 1GM10 and a 56 Litre fuel tank. Owing to the economical running of the engine I got into the habit of topping up with car diesel from a flask. Not a good idea. Then I started getting the dreaded fuel bug. Since that time I burn off the fuel in the tank before topping up, pump the tank out mid seaon and end of season and add Marine 16 bug killer. Also now purchase red diesel if possible. Be very careful of using car diesel lying for long periods in your tank.

 

[sigma38dave]

Does anyone else think the fuel type/FAME problem is overstated?

Germans supplying low quality marine fuel to their boats? Doesn't sound very Germanic to me....

 

[maxi77]

It is also fact that Fame has not been in road diesel long - therefore your fact is probably irrelevant.

No FAME in French, Dutch, but not Greek, and have no idea on Spain

Are you sure, I was filled from the same diesel pump as cars etc in more tha one French marina.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Are you sure, I was filled from the same diesel pump as cars etc in more tha one French marina.

How long ago? If it was a road fuel station, then you got road diesel. They cannot sell non FAME on the road so that is what you would expect. They would not be selling Marine.

 

[maxi77]

How long ago? If it was a road fuel station, then you got road diesel. They cannot sell non FAME on the road so that is what you would expect. They would not be selling Marine.

It was 18 months ago, and the system seems common on the Atlantic coast at the smaller marinas.

 

[Chris_Robb]

It was 18 months ago, and the system seems common on the Atlantic coast at the smaller marinas.

It was not an issue then, however, I cannot see them having FAME free in the future as their main business is probably cars and lorries.

 

[ffiill]

Yes so called biodiesel not only uses land-a lot of it Scottish- that could be used for edible food production it is also nasty stuff to make using methanol and caustic soda. Concentrated methanol can seep through your skin get you intoxicated and kill you and potassium hydroxide can dissolve you particularly when its brought up to boiling point.
What you get is biodiesel and lye soap.
I find it silly because if you must use vegetable oil of which Scotland is one of the local suppiers why not burn it preheated neat or blend it in with the diesel neat.
All my waste chip fat simply filtered goes into my central heating tank no problem.
For anyone really interested in biodiesel and veg oil which provide a lot of technical info. on suitability,problems, and how to use them in engines two great little books are "How to make Biodiesel" and "From the fryer to the fuel tank"

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

to split a hair - DERV may contain up to 7% BioDiesel content. Its addition is controlled under the renewable transport fuels obligation (RTFO) and legally you must now add 3.5% or buy tickets at a set price / litre from government in lieu.

Sometimes, when there are shortages globally, the price of FAME is greater than the ticket price and terminals add none.

we've been doing that for the last 12months at a well known refinery in Scotland.

I believe FAME addition is more common in other areas but you don't have to add it. May be worth trying to find out where you favourite fuel comes from.