Canting keel cruisers?

Rob_Webb

Rob_Webb

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These are starting to become a reality down here, as the usual lifecycle sees previously prohibitively expensive racing technology become availble to everyday sailors. OK, they are still quite pricey but they are appearing all over the place. With remarkable results.

What's the scoop in Europe? Are they an option on any production boat yet?
 
Is this what you have in mind? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

thur23med.jpg


It'll probably be on the market late next year.
 
it WILL happen, you just need to wait about 10-15 years after the classe mini fleet invent somthing before it gets to production.


There are a quite few people who I know who are interested in fast cruisers with the idea that you coul have a lifting canting keel. The idea being that you could shove the boat on a cheap mooring (if such a thing exists) and then blat to the channel islands at 15+ knots!
 
If you want to stay upright without heeling just get a multihull - saves a lot of fuss with heavy canting keels that are just asking to go wrong..........

Sorry, couldn't resist that one!
Actually I am following their progress with avid interest.
 
Nice pic. In fact I've been out on Maximus during her sea trails here in Auckland. Very impressive, fully powered up in 8kts (true wind) when sailing upwind. No downwind sails, wind always forward of the beam etc etc. OK, much of that by virtue of her size alone as opposed to canting keel but the effect was still huge. Quite eery sitting on the rail watching the bulb beneath your feet like that. Big loads and they've had teething problems but as with any new technology they'll sort it eventually.
 
Well, yeah, I'm a multihull fan too but if you just refuse to go over to the other side and insist on a 'leaner' then you might as well minimise your leanings, hence a canting keel.

Example of the difference hon a boat I occassonally race:

Scenario 1: 8.4m performance boat sailing upwind on a tight reach, 15 kts true wind, under full main and no.2 jib, 5 people on the rail, boatspeed approx 6 kts, slowly getting overtaken by bigger, heavier 12m boat (Hanse 400) who has greater waterline length. To be expected.

Scenario 2: Same 8.4m performance boat now cants keel to full extend. Boats flattens out. Add more sail power (up to #1 jib or even jibtop reacher). Take 1 person off the rail and throw him overboard to save weight. Boat starts planing upwind at 8-9kts. Leaves Hanse 40 for dead. Unless Hanse could also cant keel.....

Interested now?
 
Not just interested, I am dead impressed!

I would tend to be a wee bit worried though about the loadings on that keel, and what happens if things go wrong......

But there again, that is perhaps the same attitude as being biased against single wing aircraft (as opposed to eg bi-planes with rigging wire everywhere), or against freedom rigs (with no rigging wire at all).

I would not be surprised if canting keels are common on production racer cruisers in the near future. Way to go for sure.
 
For sure there are some big loads. But there are also big loads all over any coventional boat e.g. rudder stock, shrouds, deck-stepped masts, chainplates etc.

The usual worst case scenario if the canting keel mechanism fails is that you simply allow it to drop down to the centre and lock it - back to being a conventional keel.

Obviously it would be a bummer if it locked fully canted over to one side - would defintiley cause a stir as you motored back into the marina! But then so does losing your mast or your rudder etc.....

The alternative is water ballast. There is a racing boat here in Auckland that has two waterballast tanks, one each side, linked by a huge (12") cross-feed pipe. He has rigged up a waterski jet pump to his main diesel engine and as he tacks he pumps around 1000litres of water from one side of the boat to other in less than 5 seconds.
 
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He has rigged up a waterski jet pump to his main diesel engine and as he tacks he pumps around 1000litres of water from one side of the boat to other in less than 5 seconds.

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Has he considered rigging the main diesel engine to an underwater propellor instead? All he needs to do then is to remove the keel and ballast (he'll also have to remove mast and sails to maintain stability), and with a decent enough engine he could probably plane the hull at 40+ knots! Even in a flat calm!
 
That is impressive, shifting a tonne of ballast from one side to the other in less than 5 seconds! Try doing that with 10 crew instead.....

Another advantage of the transferable water ballast is that it does not need feeding or extra watering (or fed scotch or vodka), and it doesnt offer feedback from the rail to the skipper re how he should be sailing his boat......
 
deeply suspicious of canting keel technology still. They havent got it right for the very expensive racing boats, so who really expects it to work when produced at cut-price?

Furthermore, tacking with a canting keel requires additional manpower, and cruising is not re-known for large crews!
 
[ QUOTE ]

The alternative is water ballast. There is a racing boat here in Auckland that has two waterballast tanks, one each side, linked by a huge (12") cross-feed pipe. He has rigged up a waterski jet pump to his main diesel engine and as he tacks he pumps around 1000litres of water from one side of the boat to other in less than 5 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maximus and Alfa Romeo also have water ballast. Rather than one 12" pipe they have several of around 8". There is a transparent hatch in the sole of the boat and seeing the mass of water swirling through as the ballast is shifted gives an eerie feeling.
Incidentally, ISAF Special Regulations now require that there be provision for shifting the keel manually in case of power failure!!! Definitely not a task to be undertaken lightly (pardon the pun).
On Alfa Romeo there was not much space left below decks. They have the added complication of a forward rudder as well!
 
I agree with that. Keep it simple. I've got friends who find the trauma of a fridge compressor going phut almost too much to bear, so a canting keel jamming when beating up towards a leeshore doesn't bear thinking about.
 
Presumably these same people shun GPS and use a sextant?

For sure, have a backup in case something goes wrong.

But shunning the benefits of new technology for the sake of 'keeping it simple'. No thanks. You can keep that philosophy. Enjoy life in the dark ages, whilst the rest of us enjoy progression, used to our advantage!
 
I go sailing to escape technology and enjoy the natural forces. As I sail on an inland water I don't need all the technology. I don't want to get involved in all that gubbins. I have enough in my day to day living.
Horses for courses.
 
Fair enough. That does take me back to some fond memories of when I first fell in love with my university sweetheart and spent many an evening aboard her fathers old wooden Hillyard tucked up in various channel ports with a bottle of whisky and the whiff of paraffin and varnish in the cosy cabin.

Admittedly the whine of a canting keel mechanism is worlds apart... but as you say, horses for courses. Me, I like variety, a bit of everything at various times, rather than signing up to any one religion full time.
 
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