Can you pick-up a private mooring buoy.

[OGITD]

What are the rules / is the law with regards to picking up a private mooring buoy?

I had this conversation down the club today and to be honest I don’t know the answer.

I believe it to be polite in being prepared to move at immediate notice if the owner (with boat) arrives and requires their mooring, but what about all other occasions. And it has been said that the owner has the right to slip any and all vessels attached to their buoy & tackle without giving notice or making alternative arrangements.

Initially this sounds worse than Col-regs.

 

[lustyd]

Depends on the buoy, depends on the harbour.
Sometimes they are owned by an individual, sometimes a club, sometimes a harbour authority.
Some are for visitors, some are residents, and some are resident but available until they return. Read the almanac and worst case just keep an eye out and be polite while never picking up a buoy clearly undersize for your boat (other boats around are a clue).

 

[OGITD]

Depends on the buoy, depends on the harbour.
Sometimes they are owned by an individual, sometimes a club, sometimes a harbour authority.
Some are for visitors, some are residents, and some are resident but available until they return. Read the almanac and worst case just keep an eye out and be polite while never picking up a buoy clearly undersize for your boat (other boats around are a clue).

I know the variants for/of use and ownership, but I don’t think looking at other boats in the area is any gauge as to what it might be rated to.

 

[lustyd]

I know the variants for/of use and ownership, but I don’t think looking at other boats in the area is any gauge as to what it might be rated to.

If the empty buoy is surrounded by 20 footers and you're in a 36 the don't pick it up. If the buoy is surrounded by 36 footers and you're in a 20 then you won't break the mooring but might annoy people in larger yachts if there is another buoy in the small boat area and you take the big one.

Regarding the ownership variants, that's the whole point - if you know the nature of the buoy you'll know if it's OK or not. Private ones are almost always trouble, if only because the owner ends up miffed. Harbour owned are usually OK but always so if you ask the harbour first and they say yes.

 

[Seajet]

In Chichester Harbour it's a byelaw not to pick up someone elses' mooring then clear off to the pub leaving a boat unattended; seems like good manners anywhere.

 

[OGITD]

I totally agree!

In Chichester Harbour it's a byelaw not to pick up someone elses' mooring then clear off to the pub leaving a boat unattended; seems like good manners anywhere.

But being a bylaw suggests this is not standard throughout the UK

Also if the buoy is not in use by the owner, and is-not in immediate requirement are you obliged to vacate upon request?

Also as a bylaw and not a national/marine-law(?) would you be liable to prosecution if you were from out of the area?

 

[OGITD]

If the empty buoy is surrounded by 20 footers and you're in a 36 the don't pick it up. If the buoy is surrounded by 36 footers and you're in a 20 then you won't break the mooring but might annoy people in larger yachts if there is another buoy in the small boat area and you take the big one.

It's impossible to know/see specific mooring buoys in a cluttered (with lots of boats in close proximity) area.

Regarding the ownership variants, that's the whole point - if you know the nature of the buoy you'll know if it's OK or not. Private ones are almost always trouble, if only because the owner ends up miffed. Harbour owned are usually OK but always so if you ask the harbour first and they say yes.

If the law is to allow use then they cannot be miffed.

Also what about the public moorings which certain people use as their private property for an extended duration, eg leaving their dinghy secured to the buoy expecting it to be available (the mooring) to them upon their return from a day-sail?

 

[lustyd]

It's impossible to know/see specific mooring buoys in a cluttered (with lots of boats in close proximity) area.



If the law is to allow use then they cannot be miffed.

Also what about the public moorings which certain people use as their private property for an extended duration, eg leaving their dinghy secured to the buoy expecting it to be available (the mooring) to them upon their return from a day-sail?

It's actually much easier in crowded areas because there are plenty of boats to see which sort are common to the row of moorings. It's also usually obvious from this where a deeper channel is.

In terms of "the law" there is AFAIK no right to pick up a mooring anywhere without a local bylaw. Local bylaws never affect your right to pick up a truly private mooring owned by an individual, hence my comment above. If it's private and owned by one person then you have no right to use it at all - check the almanac. If it's owned by the harbour authority then it varies on the harbour - check the almanac. If it's a visitor mooring, there will likely be a fee - check the almanac. Sometimes visitor moorings try to ask for a fee which is not actually legally required - check the internet.

 

[chinita]

If I returned to my mooring to find you on it we would have a very simple, brief, but meaningful discussion about byelaws.

This, of course, would not be necessary if you had left your boat unattended as you would no longer have a boat to which to return.

 

[KevO]

If I returned to my mooring to find you on it we would have a very simple, brief, but meaningful discussion about byelaws.

This, of course, would not be necessary if you had left your boat unattended as you would no longer have a boat to which to return.

I understand the sentiment entirely... but given that I cannot imagine genuinely casting someone else's boat adrift even if they were on my (contracted from the HA and paid for by me) mooring and had foxtrot oscared. What would you really do?

 

[Aja]

It's actually much easier in crowded areas because there are plenty of boats to see which sort are common to the row of moorings. It's also usually obvious from this where a deeper channel is.

In terms of "the law" there is AFAIK no right to pick up a mooring anywhere without a local bylaw. Local bylaws never affect your right to pick up a truly private mooring owned by an individual, hence my comment above. If it's private and owned by one person then you have no right to use it at all - check the almanac. If it's owned by the harbour authority then it varies on the harbour - check the almanac. If it's a visitor mooring, there will likely be a fee - check the almanac. Sometimes visitor moorings try to ask for a fee which is not actually legally required - check the internet.

Where can I find his 'Almanac'? Does it have a list of all privately/HA/Hotel etc owned moorings in the UK?

Regards
Donald

 

[lustyd]

Where can I find his 'Almanac'? Does it have a list of all privately/HA/Hotel etc owned moorings in the UK?

Regards
Donald

No, but harbour authorities and their moorings are listed, as are clubs which rules out huge portions of the UK moorings. Above all, if in doubt don't leave your boat unattended.

 

[chinita]

I understand the sentiment entirely... but given that I cannot imagine genuinely casting someone else's boat adrift even if they were on my (contracted from the HA and paid for by me) mooring and had foxtrot oscared. What would you really do?

OK, what I would really do is leave the boat on my mooring. I would leave the area completely as - presumably - there are no other mooring alternatives available.

Not before I had topped up his diesel tank with seawater, however.

It is strange to my mind how yachtsmen can be inconsiderate. One would have thought the principle of consideration for others would be deeply ingrained; sadly it is not.



I would no more take an unoccupied private mooring than I would pitch a tent in a stranger's garden

When sailing in the Med I often came across dinghies/tenders/RiBs padlocked on short chains to the limited area dinghy park. The standard convention being to tie up with a long painter thus allowing others access.

I felt for these rather paranoid people; so I always added my own padlock to their chain for their added security.


However, to answer your question sensibly. If the boat was occupied on my return I would politely ask them to leave.

If the boat was unoccupied, I would radio the HM and ask them to remove the boat asp (like, 'now').

Up to the HM what they do with the boat.

I say this because I know that my HM would be happy to do just that.

 

[Topcat47]

You know nothing about the ground tackle on a private mooring so it's poor seamanship as well as poor manners to pick up a stranger's mooring and leave your boat unattended. Alderney has visitor's moorings and resident's moorings. The HM may direct you to a vacant resident's mooring if it's free and the harbour is full, but I've always anchored in such circumstances if the HM isn't around to ask.

Legally you'd be liable for resetting it if you dragged the mooring, as well as any damage caused to to neighbouring vessels.

 

[LadyInBed]

If the boat was occupied on my return I would politely ask them to leave.

It shouldn't be necessary, if 'twere I on your mooring I would apologise for inconveniencing you and tell you I am moving.

It used to be a recognised practice to borrow a vacant mooring. The mooring 'owner' would probably be off somewhere for the w/e 'borrowing' someone else's mooring.

 

[OGITD]

What!?

This, of course, would not be necessary if you had left your boat unattended as you would no longer have a boat to which to return.

How ridiculous is this? ... just think of the potential damage to other yachts in the area, not to mention the one you’ve just untied.

OK, what I would really do is leave the boat on my mooring. I would leave the area completely as - presumably - there are no other mooring alternatives available.

Not before I had topped up his diesel tank with seawater, however.

It is strange to my mind how yachtsmen can be inconsiderate. One would have thought the principle of consideration for others would be deeply ingrained; sadly it is not.

Are these the actions of a ‘considerate’ person?

And topping their fuel tanks up with sea water might be considered criminal damage!

I would no more take an unoccupied private mooring than I would pitch a tent in a stranger's garden

When sailing in the Med I often came across dinghies/tenders/RiBs padlocked on short chains to the limited area dinghy park. The standard convention being to tie up with a long painter thus allowing others access.

I felt for these rather paranoid people; so I always added my own padlock to their chain for their added security.


However, to answer your question sensibly. If the boat was occupied on my return I would politely ask them to leave.

If the boat was unoccupied, I would radio the HM and ask them to remove the boat asp (like, 'now').

Up to the HM what they do with the boat.

I say this because I know that my HM would be happy to do just that.

The analogy of pitching a tent in someone’s garden is not a ‘good-one’ as usually it is clearly within the boundaries of a dwelling and obviously belonging to said dwelling.

But an unmarked mooring (without the boats name at least) isn’t obvious to anyone.

And adding a padlock to someone-else’s painter/chain 1, is off topic & 2, what you should do is use an extra long painter .... and if you have-to climb over their tenders/dinghies to get ashore then so be it! ...... no issue really.
There are many scenarios I can think of which would involve picking-up a private & unknown mooring in an unfamiliar area, & all I was trying to establish was the rules involved & any applicable laws.
Not how to ‘piss people off’ etc.

 

[chinita]

How ridiculous is this? ... just think of the potential damage to other yachts in the area, not to mention the one you’ve just untied.



Are these the actions of a ‘considerate’ person?

And topping their fuel tanks up with sea water might be considered criminal damage!



The analogy of pitching a tent in someone’s garden is not a ‘good-one’ as usually it is clearly within the boundaries of a dwelling and obviously belonging to said dwelling.

But an unmarked mooring (without the boats name at least) isn’t obvious to anyone.

And adding a padlock to someone-else’s painter/chain 1, is off topic & 2, what you should do is use an extra long painter .... and if you have-to climb over their tenders/dinghies to get ashore then so be it! ...... no issue really.
There are many scenarios I can think of which would involve picking-up a private & unknown mooring in an unfamiliar area, & all I was trying to establish was the rules involved & any applicable laws etc.
Not how to ‘piss people off’ etc.

Troll.

 

[OGITD]

I don't think so Pal & yeh! ... I know ...we're not!

Troll.

But I'm definitely not getting into a personal ‘slagging’ competition.

I’m just trying to establish the rules ..... which appear to be a tad-difficult at the mo & somewhat elusive.

 

[prv]

It used to be a recognised practice to borrow a vacant mooring.

Bit concerned at the "used to be". I've always understood it to be ok provided the boat's not too big and you're ready to cast off pronto if the owner shows up.

Pete

 

[Joker]

I think Chinita is being the troll here.