Can Someone Enlighten Me?

[TheBoatman]

I think my problem is I have never raced in boats so I have a mind block when it comes to people that do.
In particular their attitude to all other water users. In our club we have a group (class) that is loosely based on the old J class boats, they are 30 feet long, have a crew of 3, and cost a hell of a lot of money for what you get! These boats tend to be owned/run by the more professional members of society (Doctors, lawyers, company directors and accountants so they are not short of the grey matter.
However if 20 boats are racing which means a total of 60 crew, in my experience, the moment the gun goes if you were to add up all their brain cells and times by 10 you would have a problem reaching double figures.

Whilst the only ColRegs they can quote are port/stb and windward this seems only to apply to their own class. If they find themsleves on port tack to any other class of boat then the call goes up "we're racing get out of the way" even if that boat is also racing. As for any other boat that is not racing, they don't stand a chance, they are like a pack of wolves, these people eat cruising yachts and dinghies for breakfast. They have so much confidence that they are now quite happy to take on commercial boats in fairways.

I dispair sometimes!

Maybe someone out there can explain the mentality of racing boat skippers when all I can see is an idiot that has no understanding of the ColRegs or how to act around other water users?

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[Shakey]

I crewed in a few races this season for the first time, didn't see this problem from the other side of the fence so to speak but it does seem to be a common complaint by cruising skippers towards racers.

Perhaps its just a 'road rage' type of phenomenon.

Personally, if I had an older, heavier, cruising boat and I was stand on vessel I'd stand on for as long as possible, give them five blasts as well.

It's like the idiot in a flash new beemer or porsche driving aggressively towards me in my old plumber's van. Who's going to come off worse in a crash? Do they really want to ding that shiny new plastic fantastic?

Cars, boats, it's all the same, people are always more aggressive when they know you can't physically get to them and give them the good news with a left jab right punch left hook!

<hr width=100% size=1>It could have been worse - it could have been me.

 

[fireball]

We have had similar problems, our solution? Take down their sail numbers and protest them. The RO concerned is obliged to take the protest and hear it. It doesn't matter how fast they go - they could get a DSQ upon returning.

For the call of "But I'm racing" ... I usually holler "STAAAAAARBOOOOAAAARD" so loud that the whole fleet can hear - makes sure I have a few witnesses!

You do have to be prepared to crash tack though...

PS - you could always holler back "But I have no Rudder!" - might make them wake up a bit!

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[gjeffery]

This is becoming a popular theme on these forums! And, I think deservedly so.

The RYA could make a start if tehy were to give ColRegs some emphasis in their syllabus at Levels 1 and 2 of the sailing certificates. A written test would be appropriate. This would "raise the profile" of the regs, as well as ensuring that those who take RYA sailing courses have some competence. Even Powerboat 2 contains some ColRegs.



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[dralex]

I used to race dinghies in a fairly light hearted way( 'cause my boat was never competitive enough) and have done the odd bit of big boat racing. This was at club racing level. There is definately a Red Racing Mist that comes down over even the nicest of people who then become slobbering werewolves at the helm, but are back to normal in the bar afterwards. I think crews get very caught up in their own race and the competitiveness can be overwhelming.

I prefer virtual racing these days where the other person doesn't know we're racing! ( I'm sure we all do it)

<hr width=100% size=1>Just enjoy it.

 

[flaming]

The problem here is most likely to be with the, dare I say it, slower racers. Those at the front have got there for a reason, and that reason is that these people are noticing much more, and thinking much further ahead.
If you go aboard a racing boat from the back end of the pack you will normally find an obsession with sail trim to the detriment of everything else, and you'll find that the skipper and tactitian are looking inside of the boat most of the time.
On a boat at the front of the fleet you're more likely to find the trimmers being left to do their job and the skipper and tactitian are planning a long way ahead.

It's never fast to tangle with a cruising boat, so the good guys will avoid it if at all possible.
Only time I've "tangled" with a cruising boat this season was when he happened to be alongside the mark as we arrived. No matter, just made the mark a bit bigger, delayed our kite hoist by a good 3 seconds. But given the gap to the next boat was a good couple of minutes......
Did hear him get an ear bashing from the following pack though, well they needed some excuse!

So if a racer from the back of the pack yells at you, you could point out that the leaders went by without a sound some minutes ago.

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[Cornishman]

After spending most of my sailing career of about 50 years cruising but occasionally taking part in none too serious racing I have just spent the summer as race officer at my club. I don't recognise any of the mad racing people you mention. Maybe that is something to do with this part of the country, although I have noticed one or two cruising yachts failing to observe the good manners and patience which would avoid these sort of situations, and Yes, they were locals. The demand by cruising yachts to observe ColRegs at all costs embarasses me when it is not entirely necessary.
Whatever has happened to the old 'give and take' attitude which abounded when I first started sailing in the 1950s? It seems to have disappeared in the last 10 years or so. This is not only in sailing but in just about every other activity.

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[Peppermint]

Re: The quatum leap

for me was when a top racing guy showed me that what others see as an idiot in a cruising boat bumbling in the way, is an opportunity sent from the race gods. Of course the cruising man might have found our approach a little alarming but we were always polite.

Part of the problem is race officers who run in stupid places at daft times.

The second part is cruisers, not reading the runes early enough and spotting that a race is about to start or turn and head for them. When Mr Cruiser spots the problem he often gets a tad unpredictable in his manouverings.

Both are made worse by the corporate sailing lot who just decide to have a race start/course just about anywhere. The dumbest I've seen, and crikey I've seen some, was a race finish for about 20 boats, all driven by nitwits, in Osbourne bay on a Sunday lunchtime.

Third thing is what pilots call target fixation. Many racing men are a bit wrapped up in the objective. As a result they fail to comprehend that a cruiser or MoBo might be manouvering for any other reason than to meet his obligation to them. They often get very close before they twig. Hey I thought I was the centre of the universe.

The answer? The answer is learn your ColRegs. For cruisers to learn to spot the signs of races happening and an understanding of what might happen next. Then you can have an escape plan. If your badly treated by a race yacht, get his sail number and moan. If your racing, you generally have more power and reflexes, plan ahead and get on with it. You won't win races by letting cruising yachts break your concentration.



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[Robin]

Very true

When I raced dinghies 'n' years back the same people were always at the back, (one of them was the RYA dinghy instructor too, often seen demonstrating how to capsize). They knew their rightful place too, because if we made a disastrous start they would often move over and let us past without a word said from us. They would be so busy shouting at each other, engaging in luffing matches and looking behind at us that they went slower and slower whilst we went silently by....Later they would ask us where we found all that boatspeed from.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[dralex]

Re: The quatum leap

Good point about races in the wrong place at the wrong time- there were some National Dinghy races in Torbay this summer, some of which were staged right outside the entrance to the marina- Race officers have to expect trouble if they plan as badly as that. There is no excuse in Torbay as the potential race area is large- there must be some onus on race officers to use common sense as to situation and timing, as well as people being more aware ( racing and non racing).

<hr width=100% size=1>Just enjoy it.

 

[AlexL]

Re: The quatum leap

There is a saying in flying which is "Never fly the plane anywhere which your brain didn't arrive at first" or "always keep ahead of the plane". I guess this is the problem with some racing yachts - they've let the boat get ahead of them, and are reacting to their surroundings instead of planning and thinking ahead. The good guys,as has been said here, are probably always watching the world unfold before them and have assesed everything well before they arrive.

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[Cantata]

I keep reading about this but really haven't had the problem.
I used to dinghy-race (still do occasionally) a lot, and we quite often cruise on the Mudway (where the RO doesn't have much choice over where he sets the course), and seen these chaps you mention. As someone else has said, a hefty bawl of 'staaaaaaarboooooooard' if necessary signifies your intent and determination and should make most twits go away.

And as others have also rightly said, the back-markers in racing are the ones with a problem - chaps at the front (and I was blessed with the ability to be up there) just get on with it and treat all obstacles as something to avoid as efficiently and quietly as possible.

Nice idea about protesting offenders, but that would require going ashore and filling in a form......


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[flaming]

I thought they'd stopped third party protests? I know you can no longer protest a fellow competitor for having an incident with another boat, but is a protest by someone not connected to the race a valid protest if they are protesting about an incident that they were involved in?
I've never heard of such a protest, except as an addition to the sailing instructions that meant that all complaints by a harbour master were going to be dealt with as protests.

Not sure if taking the action of a protest would necessarily do much good, could simply get people's backs up and drive a big wedge between racing and cruising folk.

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[bedouin]

I thought you could only lodge a protest if you "have an interest in the outcome". i.e. you are either competing in the race yourself, or it is part of a series in which you are competing. I didn't think there was a mechanism for spectators to protest.

Of course you could always classify it as an incident worthy of reporting to MCA /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[fireball]

No, you can protest if you have witnessed the incident, or been involved in it. Sail racing is still a self inforcing sport (for the most part). It is entirely acceptible to protest a boat from another fleet/race so there is nothing to stop a cruiser from lodging a similar protest.

Do think though - what if the boot was on the other foot - if your racing in a close fleet and a cruiser mianders through calling out starboard to everyone .... sometimes it is better to just not get your cruiser into that situation (not always possible to get out of though!)

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[flaming]

Pretty sure the rules changed so that where two boats are involved in an incident only those two boats may protest. This was changed becasue of the high number of protests which were logged just in case another boat had seen the incident and protested both boats for not protesting. This tended to be a gigantic waste of time.
This means that boats from other fleets, and presumably passing cruisers, can protest, but the boat in the same fleet who merely witnessed an incident between a cruiser and a racing boat cannot.

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[fireball]

extracts from the 2001-2004 rules

60 Right to Protest and Request Redress
60.1 A boat may
(a) protest another boat, but not for an alleged breach of a rule of part 2 unless she was involved in or saw the incident; or
(b) request redress

60.2 A race committee may
(c) report to the protest comittee requesting action under rule 69.1(a)


69.1 Action by a Protest comitee
(a) when a protest comittee, from its own observation or a report received, believes that a competitor may have committed a gross breach of a rule or of good manners or sportsmanship, or may have brought the sport into disrepute, it may call a hearing. The protest comittee shall promtly inform the competitor in writing ......... etc




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[Douglas]

The racing rules specifically state that the ColRegs or 'government right of way rules' apply between boats racing and boats not racing.

There is an ISAF appeal case (Case 67) dealing with a situation where the racing boat was the give way boat under ColRegs and intentionally hit the cruiser. The racing boat was disqualified under the government right of way rule.

Moreover the same case makes clear that under these circumstances the racing boat is subject to further penalty under Rule 69. This rule permits wide ranging action by race committees, national authorities (the RYA in GB) and the ISAF where a competitor has committed a gross breach of a rule or of good manners or sportsmanship, or has brought the sport into disrepute.



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[Twister_Ken]

I think the fleet you picked as an example is probably about the worse. They are level rating (so have no excuse for doing badly) they are all from one club, they've probably been racing against each other for years, and they'll meet for dinner and drinkies from time to time off the water. It's this sort of incestuous racing that brings out the very worst - the teeth clenched "there's no way I'm going to let that bastard Buffy beat me this season" attitude. In a mixed fleet, you'd probably see less aggro. I once briefly got involved in racing Darings at Cowes - fun it wasn't.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[TheBoatman]

Re: The quatum leap

You are definately right there. I have found that the average racer can only see whats in front of him or should I say around him, in as much as he can only see the next mark or the closest racing boat to him, outside of that he has no vision at all?

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