Can Liveaboards Become Legal Expat Residents in Italy?

JoeAnthony

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Does anyone have experience with or knowledge about establishing residency as an expat retiree in Italy -- as a liveaboard?

Steps required for landlubbers:
1. Before entering Italy -- get from one's home consulate: visto per dimora - long stay visa/elective residence visa (one must meet financial, medical insurance and housing requirements).
2. Upon arrival in Italy -- get from the questura: permesso di soggiorno (PdiS) - permit to stay.
3. Finally, from the comune: get residenza (residency) permit.

Are the steps the same if one were to purchase a yacht and live aboard (or cruise) in Italian waters? Is it even possible? In other words, could a yacht owned by an expat be considered his "permanent home" for residency purposes?
 

bbilly

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Tomorrow I need to inquire about my change of residency in the local comunal office here in Rome. I'll inquire about taking up residency in a boat - can't promise they'll know the answer though.

Will
 

JoeAnthony

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Thanks, Will, I'll look forward to hearing what they have to say. I will ask at our local consulate, of course, but it will be interesting to hear what they say from your end. Too bad Ostia silted up so long ago, or we could be at a slip in Testaccio!
 

MapisM

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Interesting question.
I am aware of people staying in Italy for very long periods - but not moving their house - and getting their "residenza" in a hotel.
Therefore, I can not imagine any reason why you couldn't get it in a boat.
Btw, the point you're raising is valid regardless of citizenship.
I'm interested in reading about bbilly's investigation.
In case he won't get a reply, I'll also give that a try - I'm curious.
 

bbilly

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Hi,
In Rome they do accept residence for person with no fixed abode. Residence is elected and accepted at a ficticous address where all such subjects can register. However this may depend on the comune. So if you keep your boat at Fiumicino you need to ask there. If you keep your boat at Ostia (which is a comune of Rome) you can apply in the local "circoscrizione". If you need the addresses I can find them for you.

Will
 

tome

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Good heavens, do you still need a sodyernose (permesso di soggiorno) after all these years? We had to get them back in the 70's but I assumed that they were distant history by now with EU membership.
 

MapisM

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Understandable rant.
But yes, a EU (non-IT) citizen still need to get that.
The difference after EU is that it is now just a formality.
I mean, the authorities can not refuse to give it, as long as you have a EU passport.

...after all, over here we have excellent food and wine, fair weather, nice seas and mountains, and some other things on the positive side...

That makes it easier to live with some bureaucracy, and also a few other drawbacks! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

JoeAnthony

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Tome, I have a U.S. passport and I'm sure we need the "permesso" -- I don't think it's just a formality for us.

Bbilly, I don't understand "circoscrizione" in your post above. Can you tell me what that is, please? Also, regarding the "fictitious" address you mention with regard to Rome residency -- is that totally above board on both sides, or is it a mutual "wink"? I'm told that I will need a signed contract on an apartment or house to prove that I have a place to live -- hardly a formality. I'm more comfortable playing by the rules -- but if this makes me poor expat material for Italy, I guess I can learn to adjust.

The Catch-22 here is who would want to sign a lease (or buy a boat) before he knows he can get the long-stay visa, but you need the lease to apply for the visa. Hence he "wink"?

I appreciate all the information I can get.
 

bbilly

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Regarding the residency it's all above board. If you think about it all those homeless (those who choose to live in cardboard bivouacs on the streets) where can they register? It seems that all of those with nfa (no fixed abode) are registered in the same place. I need to fill in the forms for my change of residency and go back on Monday so when I get to talk to the clerk I'll get more details. Being non-EU shouldn't be a problem but maybe somebody else can help you on that I thinkthe only thing you need to demonstrate is that you have funds to sustain yourself and a valid motive for staying (study, tourism....). The bigger cities are all broken up into "circoscrizioni" a bit like precints in NYC and they deal with certificates (which are many in Italian burocracy) and local issues. Regarding catch-22 maybe you could get the residency as nfa and then apply for a long-term visa. You can PM if you like and I'm only too pleased to assist you if you need help or an interpreter. BTW with the "soggiorno" and residency I beieve you have access to all the sanitary assistance which apart from the cosmetics of crumbling hospitals isn't too bad.

I've also thought about buying a boat and living on that in Rome, what's the max draught for Testaccio!!!!??? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

JoeAnthony

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Hello Geoff. The 16th century? Ostia Antica? I thought the course of the Tiber changed around that time, making the Tiber inaccessible to deeper draft boats. It was an attempt at humor, which I'm not very good at. What are the marinas like in Ostia? Is there a liveaboard community there? How far up the Tiber can small boats sail?
 

castlevar

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Hi antares Not able to answer your Question about tiber but I should think it is quite shallow.
But reference to the liveaboards in ostia there are about 60 boats and possibly another 25 or so up the river it really is a good comunity with a morning net social events etc
The marina has recently opened a yacht club very posh with internet ,drinks at cost tv rooms libary we have been offered membership on a monthly basis really very good.
I am at home at the moment returning on 20 march to all the painting etc.
 

charles_reed

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Ostia

There is the new Porto Romana just outside the modren Ostia, which does appear to be silting in the entrance - it's only been open for a couple of years and when i went in October 2004 there was under 3m at one point in the entrance compared to an alleged 5m.

Some people could even claim that Porto Roma is Ostia though I'd reckon it's really Isola Sacra and therefore part of Fiumicino Commune.

The limiting factor is the headroom under the bridge just below the café/museo in Ostia Antica, for sailboats that's about 3.5nm up the river - for power boats you can get up to the outskirts of Rome.
 

Metabarca

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[ QUOTE ]
Good heavens, do you still need a sodyernose (permesso di soggiorno) after all these years? We had to get them back in the 70's but I assumed that they were distant history by now with EU membership.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to add a postscript to Mapism's remark, the permesso di soggiorno is now given out to EU nationals with no expiry date, so next time you renew (or if you get one ex novo), it will be the last time! This is not the case for non-EU nationals, of course who, I believe, need to show they have the wherewithal to survive in Italy (dosh, pension, work pension). The P di S takes around 3 weeks to get, whereas the residency in a Comune is an over the counter job (at least here in Trieste, but here ve're haff Austrian, ja!)
 

tome

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Thanks, very interesting. My last PdS arived 2 weeks before I left Italy, a mere 14 months after I'd applied for it!
 

bbilly

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Antares,
Tried to do my residence change again this morning, unfortunately I need the PdS and not only the receipt /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Anyway restated your questions and once you have the PdS you need to go to Servizi Sociale, Via Benedetto Croce 50 (EUR - thats in Rome south) and they will register you at the ficticous address. Hope this helps.

Will
 
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