Can I run an engine with no cooling?

[MapisM]

Ok, the background is that the raw water pump on one of my engines was leaking. I removed it from the engine, brought it to my mechanic and agreed to have her rebuilt. The job should have already been completed, but unfortunately there's a delay in the supply of some seals.
Trouble is, on sunday I already agreed to go out with some friends and I would hate to disappoint them.
So, long story short, I'm thinking to use the boat anyway, using just one engine.
After all, one advantage of slow boats is that 9 or 7 kts doesn't really make a huge difference.
But mooring upon return with just one engine isn't really an exhilarating perspective, considering also that the beast has no thrusters.

This brings me to the question of the title: I would think that turning the second engine on and use it just for a few minutes while mooring should be harmless, even if there would be no raw water cooling at all.
For the records, I'm talking of a Cat 3116 engine, obviously with closed cooling cirtuit and heat exchanger - which are unaffected by the raw water pump removal, aside from the fact that there's no sea water flowing around, of course.

Anyway, I would be interested to hear the views of the engine experts around here. Thanks in advance!

 

[[2068]]

If it's anything like a Volvo Penta KAD32, it will last maybe 10 minutes at low load, or about 90 seconds under planing / higher loads before it disintegrates in a cloud of steam and warped cylinder heads.

Remind me again how much a CAT 3116 rebuild would be.
£10k ?
£15k ?

 

[PaulGooch]

If you watch the temp gauge to be safe, a short run should be OK for mooring. You have to heat the closed freshwater circuit to a dangerous level before suffering any damage.

 

[MapisM]

Remind me again how much a CAT 3116 rebuild would be.
£10k ?
£15k ?

LOL, I wouldn't want to know, for another 15 years or so...!
Anyway, 3 minutes at idle would be more than enough, just for mooring maneuver.

 

[TQA]

5 mins at light load will be no problem.

 

[Spi D]

If your leaving raw water serves any cooling purposes on the exhaust side (eg. many wet silencers do not tolerate high temps), you do not have long.

Mind you, if something does not go as planned (other boats, weather etc.), you may not be able shut it off early as intended

If only going slow why not let the working pump supply both engines?
A 3-way valve would do and could come in handy if a pump fails again..

 

[nimbusgb]

I wonder what your insurers would think if the working engine quits and there's a following loss.

There's always next Sunday

 

[Latestarter1]

Ok, the background is that the raw water pump on one of my engines was leaking. I removed it from the engine, brought it to my mechanic and agreed to have her rebuilt. The job should have already been completed, but unfortunately there's a delay in the supply of some seals.
Trouble is, on sunday I already agreed to go out with some friends and I would hate to disappoint them.
So, long story short, I'm thinking to use the boat anyway, using just one engine.
After all, one advantage of slow boats is that 9 or 7 kts doesn't really make a huge difference.
But mooring upon return with just one engine isn't really an exhilarating perspective, considering also that the beast has no thrusters.

This brings me to the question of the title: I would think that turning the second engine on and use it just for a few minutes while mooring should be harmless, even if there would be no raw water cooling at all.
For the records, I'm talking of a Cat 3116 engine, obviously with closed cooling cirtuit and heat exchanger - which are unaffected by the raw water pump removal, aside from the fact that there's no sea water flowing around, of course.

Anyway, I would be interested to hear the views of the engine experts around here. Thanks in advance!

No problem at all running the motor without circulating heat exchanger.

However as already pointed out exhaust system will be toast in short order.

So you have now experienced being Sherwood 1700 stuffed!

Superb piece of value engineering.........

The alloy Sherwood calls bronze.....Who are they kidding! Cams and wear plates just seem to disappear into thin air!

Premature water seal failure, lousy design and style of seal. 90% of every Sherwood 17xx pump ever made develops a leaking water seal before 500 hours. Jabsco seal designs of the 1960's should be object lessson to Sherwood.

The "Spinning Cam Syndrome"-Caused by a cam screw made from a material akin to mature cheddar cheese.

The straight key/impeller design and the problems with wear, installation and rear plate failure when the key moves aft and grinds on it.

Shaft failures due to defective snap-ring groove design.

They did finally fix the woodruff key issues in the earliest designs that caused pump and serious gear housing failures.

Best of luck!

 

[oldgit]

What can possibly go wrong ?

Have you ever tried maneuvering your boat on one engine under non stressful)) conditions.?
After removing one prop for repitching recently ( ignoring "we all know whats going to happen" offers of help ) decided to back my boat off the scrubbing blocks using the one usable remaining engine.

The way out is via a narrow channel with boats moored either side.

A worrying (for me) and terrifying (for all parked boat owners) few minites followed.
A combination of tide,the prop torque,no water flow over props cos reversing,ensured a wildly erratic pendulum like progress between the two rows of boats with alternate groups dashing to protect their boats from my bathing platform/anchor depending on their location.
There was much piss taking on my return to the bar.!

 

[spannerman]

The most critical part will be the rubber exhaust hose where it joins the exhaust bend which is normally kept cool by the water in the exhaust. If it gets fried on the inside it won't be apparent externally, but could fail later, filling the engine room with exhaust and dumping cooling water everywhere.
I wouldn't run it for more than a minute or two at idle.

 

[DAKA]

I dont know your engine but I would expect that the raw water pump attaches above the engine oil level but when removed there is a hole direct to your guts and it will splash oil out. I would be tempted to make a temporary cover plate (large tupperware/ice cream lid will do nicely), that way even with the other engine running and chucking up all sorts of dust nothing should get into the hole.

could you take out the exhaust temp alarm/bung and replace it with a fresh water hose from your domestics in order to cool the exhaust (what ever you do dont under any circumstances run the hose while the engine is not running.

If its the califier side you can also cool the engine by running the hot water.

 

[volvopaul]

Two mins max!!! But as Daka says there will def be a hole in the timing case. The sherwood pumps are junk, the c15 has a plastic cam cradle held in place by a pin, it snaps then the cam spins in the pump body wrecking the pump body, new pump over 2 k, pathetic design.

 

[superheat6k]

I suppose the question is how much you want to keep your promise.

At any speed at all the exhaust pipe will be on fire within 10 minutes, and that is less likely to impress your friends, nor your insurers. When the exhaust pipe starts burning it will open into the engine space and the lethal exhaust fumes will gather there.

Boating is never a pursuit intended to keep you on schedule. This applies from the smallest to the largest, cheapest and oldest to newest and most expensive.

My Pals 2 year old Princess V42 is testament to that. Last year his second season he lost most of the Summer due to poor quality seawater pump drives VP installed in his D6s. This year they spent two months of the early season rebuilding the engines due to the overheat suffered. And since - well the weather has meant he has still not left the Solent.

I would postpone until the engine works properly.

 

[Lakesailor]

What kind of mates would expect you not to keep a promise at the expense of possibly damaging your engine?
Just be sensible and don't use it until it's fixed.

 

[omega2]

divert the bilge pump to the engine, put some water in the bilge, and you have positive loss system, give the mrs a bucket on a bit of rope.

 

[omega2]

No problem at all running the motor without circulating heat exchanger.

However as already pointed out exhaust system will be toast in short order.

So you have now experienced being Sherwood 1700 stuffed!

Superb piece of value engineering.........

The alloy Sherwood calls bronze.....Who are they kidding! Cams and wear plates just seem to disappear into thin air!

Premature water seal failure, lousy design and style of seal. 90% of every Sherwood 17xx pump ever made develops a leaking water seal before 500 hours. Jabsco seal designs of the 1960's should be object lessson to Sherwood.

The "Spinning Cam Syndrome"-Caused by a cam screw made from a material akin to mature cheddar cheese.

The straight key/impeller design and the problems with wear, installation and rear plate failure when the key moves aft and grinds on it.

Shaft failures due to defective snap-ring groove design.

They did finally fix the woodruff key issues in the earliest designs that caused pump and serious gear housing failures.

Best of luck!

do jabsco do a "copy"

 

[Nick_H]

Could one of your friends use your tender to help you berth? Alternatively, will the Port send someone in a small boat.

 

[Latestarter1]

do jabsco do a "copy"

No fraid not.

Sherwood have Cat, Cummins and Deere all in the bag, Jabsco have pretty much thrown the towel in on bronze circulating pumps.

Pal of mine in California has designed a better widget based on the Sherwood 71XX, spent years improving the design and uses proper materials and marketed under the brand SeamaX. Seal design of SeamaX is pretty much a straight lift from the lovely old Jabsco pump which was fitted to the Cummins VT 903 marine engine.

Luckily Cat and Cummins have the sense to use the British 'Gilkes' pump, the best there is, on large engines.

 

[volvopaul]

I suppose the question is how much you want to keep your promise.

At any speed at all the exhaust pipe will be on fire within 10 minutes, and that is less likely to impress your friends, nor your insurers. When the exhaust pipe starts burning it will open into the engine space and the lethal exhaust fumes will gather there.

Boating is never a pursuit intended to keep you on schedule. This applies from the smallest to the largest, cheapest and oldest to newest and most expensive.

My Pals 2 year old Princess V42 is testament to that. Last year his second season he lost most of the Summer due to poor quality seawater pump drives VP installed in his D6s. This year they spent two months of the early season rebuilding the engines due to the overheat suffered. And since - well the weather has meant he has still not left the Solent.

I would postpone until the engine works properly.

The d6 engines pumps are belt driven so how would the drive fail? The owner must have run them to boiling point and beyond to require a rebuild. The edc should have placed the motor in limp mode, that should have surely told him to shut down. And why both motors, there must be more to it that that.?

 

[TQA]

divert the bilge pump to the engine, put some water in the bilge, and you have positive loss system, give the mrs a bucket on a bit of rope.

If you do this be REAL careful about overfilling the exhaust system with water if you have a bilge pump with a healthy output.

It is only to easy to fill the cylinders up with water through the exhaust and hydraulic lock the engine.