can I borrow your boat....please?

M

mattnj

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www.red-data.co.uk
Hi.
Ok, so after 5 years of owning our Delher 38 at Chichester we have sold her, to buy our dream house/small farm.
We miss the boat dearly, so thought we would look to charter one this summer...
so, I thought I should ask here, before I look at the commercial options....we are looking to "borrow" a 32ft or larger (5 berth) yacht for a say 1 or 2 weeks in August. Somewhere in the solent. Obviously we would be prepared to pay a decent rate for the privilege.

Anyone interested?

Thanks
 
Don't think you will find anybody - unless they like breaking the law! You can't legally "borrow" a boat and pay for it because it then becomes commercial and the boat needs to be coded so it will be a charter.
 
Tranona said:
Don't think you will find anybody - unless they like breaking the law! You can't legally "borrow" a boat and pay for it because it then becomes commercial and the boat needs to be coded so it will be a charter.
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interesting, could someone lend him his boat for free and accept a reciprocal offer of, say, a mooring fee contribution?
 
Quite so re Commercial Operation. This relates very much to the expectations of both parties but especially the hirer (borrower). On a borrow basis the borrower has no rights to expect anythinng in the way of reliability or safety of the vessel or equipment. From the other direction the hirer even in a commercial operation has a worry about the skill diligence or luck of the temporary skipper. So only a truly no cash changes hands arrangement can be truly non commercial. And don't tell the insurance company!
Now if you had a mutual friend who understood the problems of paying for a non commercial borrow and who was trusted to hold an appropriate sum as a bond and cost who could then hand over the cash after the event with bond and or charter fee varied depending on the outcome of the voyage. Then perhaps it might work. But with no legal recourse.
A pity because it could be a mutually beneficial arrangement. But just like boat partnerships takes a lot of trust and fraught with potential problems.
I have loaned my boat to friends and have also borrowed friends boats. No problem so far fortunately. But only a small boat anyway. good luck olewill
 
viago said:
interesting, could someone lend him his boat for free and accept a reciprocal offer of, say, a mooring fee contribution?
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I regret that ANY financial contribution to the upkeep and maintenance of the boat is considered to make the transaction a charter. You can borrow a boat and pay for the diesel and gas you've used, but if you start to make a contribution to the wear and tear of the sails or make a gift for a 'new genoa' the authorities take a very dim view.
 
Katie L being borrowed

Katie L is in the hands of a renowned Scottish Forumite

legally she belongs to him

now of course at the end of the year he could decide that he likes her enough to keep her and I would be in a bit of a bind

but I am guessing that his reputation as a man of honour is more important to him than the value of a small boat

I am sure that two friends could come to an arrangement

after all insurance does not prevent you from letting other people sail your boat

D
 
Tranona said:
Don't think you will find anybody - unless they like breaking the law! You can't legally "borrow" a boat and pay for it because it then becomes commercial and the boat needs to be coded so it will be a charter.
Click to expand...

Of course there may well be someone with a coded boat whose interested. As an alternative, perhaps the OP could find someone who fancies a one-way cruise this summer and arrange to bring the boat back from wherever it gets to. As long as the borrower doesn't pay the owner, that would be legitimate in any boat and the owner would get something in return.
 
wully1 said:
Oh dear, crime of the century.
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Better to know that you are potentially doing something illegal than just do it and get caught! More of a concern for the owner than the "borrower".

As we know many people both know the law and break it, but ignorance is not an excuse.
 
john_morris_uk said:
I regret that ANY financial contribution to the upkeep and maintenance of the boat is considered to make the transaction a charter. You can borrow a boat and pay for the diesel and gas you've used, but if you start to make a contribution to the wear and tear of the sails or make a gift for a 'new genoa' the authorities take a very dim view.
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so what is the situation when a person is paid by the owner to take the boat to a chosen destination?
 
john_morris_uk said:
the authorities take a very dim view.
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Who are they? What power do "they" have to do anything (what, exactly?) about it? The only authority I can think of that might be interested is the tax man.

As long as you don't have an accident or an insurance claim I can't see who would be the least bit interested even though in theory I agree it might be deemed a charter.

Even the insurer won't know unless you tell them, cos no one else will.
 
MASH said:
Who are they? What power do "they" have to do anything (what, exactly?) about it? The only authority I can think of that might be interested is the tax man.

As long as you don't have an accident or an insurance claim I can't see who would be the least bit interested even though in theory I agree it might be deemed a charter.

Even the insurer won't know unless you tell them, cos no one else will.
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only in the event of an accident or incident would there ever be an issue. if you bother to buy insurance in the first place then you must consider that risk to be significant.
i imagine "they" are the mca, rnli, insurance companies and of course the tax man.
what does it take to get a boat coded other that some safety kit and a bucket load of cash?
 
To clarify....
We become friends and you lend us use of your boat with no "charge" to do so. It will not be a charter.

As friends we may give you a lovely Birthday/Christmas present. :-)
 
MASH said:
Who are they? What power do "they" have to do anything (what, exactly?) about it? The only authority I can think of that might be interested is the tax man.
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"They" are the MCA who are the prosecuting authority under the MSA. Definitions of what is "commercial" is contained within the act.
 
mattnj said:
To clarify....
We become friends and you lend us use of your boat with no "charge" to do so. It will not be a charter.

As friends we may give you a lovely Birthday/Christmas present. :-)
Click to expand...

Difference between "form" and "substance". You are trying to show that it comes under the definition of leisure based on friendship, but the substance of the relationship is clearly commercial.

All comes down to your (and the boat owner) attitude to risk. You would be potentially breaking the law with such an arrangement - but are you prepared to deal with the consequences if you are "caught"?
 
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