Can I bend a hanked-on sail to a roller reefing foil?

misterg

misterg

Well-Known Member
Joined
31 Oct 2003
Messages
2,884
Location
N. Wales
Visit site
Dear all,

The previous owner of our boat had roller-reefing gear fitted (Plastimo 406), together with a new (150%?) genoa. When the furling gear was fitted, one of his stipulations was that he should be able to continue to use his hanked-on sails. He was given a bunch of these (Which slide nicely into the groove on the RR foil) but didn't know what to do with them (he wasn't the keenest sailor - he was selling the boat to buy a jet-ski /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif).

265340848_bef1ca5517_d.jpg


The hanked-on sails that came with the boat seem to be (mostly) in very good nick, particularly the 100% and 80% jibs, and there's an unused 40 sq ft. Rockall storm jib.

Q1) I presume that the piston hanks need to be removed from the sail, and these attached instead (stitched tape, plastic shackle, lashing, etc.), rather than just hanking on to these?

Q2) How strong are they likely to be? Is it sufficient to attach one where each hank came from?

Q3) I'm aware of the 'issues' (PC -eh?) of trying to change a jib in conditions which have already resulted in reefing, but which of the above sails would be the best complement to the 150% Genoa? (For example to set before leaving the mooring if conditions looked a bit heavy.)

Q4) (sorry) Would you use these for the storm jib (only 5 hanks)? If not, is there any way I could make use of it (no baby stay, or 2nd forestay, but spare halyard. No other storm jib).

Phew! If you've got this far - Thanks!

Andy (22' Newbridge Venturer)
 
Sorry I can't help directly.... but, those sliders do look like a good idea, if they work, of fitting hanked sails on a roller reefing setup. I would have thought that you hank on to those, otherwise the sail would still have needed altering and reading your description the previous owner didn't want this, all IMHO of course.

I read with interest.
 
I've seen those used, we even have one at the clew of our main with a few wraps of tape and sewn in the middle. The only issue is how many to fit, I can't see any obvious reason why you would need more than the hanks but somebody might know. Plan B, ask a rigger they should be familiar with them.
 
Hi Andy.
Would it be worth having the bolt rope in the luff of the sails re worked to fit the foil it would hand/roll better and the sail may still need to be reworked to work as a reffed sail properly. But that would depend on the foil/mech and the cut of the sail.
I don't know if "Mouse Loft" is still at T bay holyhead but may be worth an enquiry. I will see if I can find their Tel No. or may be some one can help.
Cheers David.
 
If you've got enough and there is enough clearance can't you just attach one of your plastic widgets to each piston hank on each of the sails and then just slide them up the RR groove.

If this isn;t possible then a sailmaker will be able to replace your piston hanks with these and attach them strongly enough so that there shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't recommend you try it yourself unless you're really confident as the forces involved, especially with storm canvas can be considerable.

The great thing about them is that your RR will still work and if you have to take down any canvas including the storm jib (!) then you'll be able to roll it away from the cockpit. Seems like a perfect blend of old and new to me but I'm sure there will be other opinions.

Whatever, hope it all goes well.

Chas
 
I've never seen those before but they seem a good idea.
Using them for a storm jib would worry me though.
OK if you are going to start out with a storm jib, but if you need to change down from a larger, you would need to let the old sail fully out in order to remove it. Not something I would fancy doing with all the flapping involved.Especially sitting on the foredeck of a 22ft boat.
Have you considered having a removable 2nd forestay for storm jib use?
 
My previous boat, a Leisure 17, came with a Plastimo foil and two headsails - both altered in exactly the way you describe.

The hanks had been removed, and the plastic sliders lashed onto the eyelets - using some form of rustless wire rather than thread. It worked fine for me. Changing sails whilst underway will still leave you with the problem of loose sail billowing about the foredeck but the sliders are probably easier to remove, and when refitting you are dealing with one slider at a time - pushing them up the foil the minimum amount so that they are all attached before you attempt to hoist the sail.

If you already know the conditions before leaving the berth, then fit the sail which can be used, unreefed , in those conditions.

Once you have started to reef in worsening conditions, you cannot then change to a smaller sail.

BTW - My current boat - an Albin Vega - still uses hank on headsails. I prefer these as I can change to an appropriate sail but my wife is trying to persuade me to change to roller furling as she is unhappy that I need to work on the foredeck and she needs to helm in worsening conditions.

Ash
 
I have some of these from when I fitted a Plastimo roller about 10 years ago, I never used them but I think they were intended to clipped to the standard hanks.
 
At first sight I thought this looked good but thinking about it you might be heading for the worst of both worlds. If you use hanked sails you have failsafe reliability with a sail cut right for the conditions. With furlers you swop ease of sail changing for being able to shorten sail from the cockpit but at the expence of increasingly poor performance. The main difficulty with changing a furling sils is not the luff slide (they are used in racing all the time) but the fact that the sail has to be fully unfurled and its then a 2 person (at least) job to change sails. With these you still have the same problem, the sail must be unfurled and is then likly to be a problem as there is too much of it for the conditions (otherwise you wouldent have reefed it) so I can't see the point - why not just use the luff slide? Even better if you can set an inner forstay with a hanked sail and an out reefer
 
I had some fitted for easy storing of my mainsail on the boom. The headboard uses a tape and the luff has eyelets and rings a bit like shower curtain hooks. I reckon on a roller headsail they'd be a bit lumpy and cause wear.
I had a new luff tape with integral bolt rope fitted for about £60 on a genoa.
Headboard.jpg
 
Thanks for all the advice so far.

What I'd like to do is try something in the next few weeks, so I can ponder the results through the dark days of winter. I know that an inner forestay would be the best answer for the storm jib, but I'm not sure it's worth the investment on this boat (it's only a tiddler, after all /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif), but I would like "an option" - any thoughts on trying to set it "flying"? Also appreciate the issues about unfurling a reefed sail to change it

I think using these slides gives two possibilities - Either using the RR foil as if it were a forestay, leaving the hanks on the sails and not using the reefing, or fitting them to the sail directly, which leaves the possibility of using the RR (either for reefing or furling) - My preference would be for this option.

The sails I'm thinking of using seem to have straight luffs, so I would be hopeful that they might be able to be reefed successfully (Ignore the genoa on the bottom with the curved luff).

265516787_30faeeab56_d.jpg


265516784_f9464cfbce_d.jpg


I'm aware that I could possibly get them modified to suit RR gear, and this is a route I might follow (with sacrificial strips, etc.). Thanks for the pointer to Mouse Loft David - I know they had a good reputation for windsurfing sails, and I've stayed on the camp-site behind them, so I know where they are! JKA in Pwllheli did the RR genoa, so they would also be a possibility.

I was mainly concerned that I was interpreting the purpose of these slides correctly, and that they would be strong enough - I could find loads of information about mainsail slides/slugs on the internet, but precious little about using them on a jib. For testing purposes, I would be happy to bind them loosely through the existing eyelets myself unless anyone knows why I shouldn't. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Q5) (really sorry!) To remove the piston hanks, I assume one bends the tang back sufficiently to un hook it from the eyelet? Is this likely to wreck the hank? Nautical theme key-rings, anyone??

Thanks again to all who have responded, and sorry for replying to myself (very bad form...)

Andy
 
hi
I was in a similar situation, I fitted plastimo RR and wanted to use my existing hanked sail, at least until I can afford a new genoa. I removed the hanks and pulled out the existing luff rope which was too thick to fit in the groove on the spar. Then fitted a new smaller rope (4mm I think- try different size ropes to see which is best fit) and sewed the ends back in. Then you dont need the plastic clips which I dont think work very well. The sails near the corners are thicker because the material is doubled up for strength so I stopped the rope short because it was too tight. I sewed one of the clips at each corner to give additional support where the rope was stopped short. The sail works reasonably well but I think not as well as one made for RR plus I dont have sacrificial strip fitted (an alternative is to make a sleeve to fit over the rolled up sail and pulled up on a halyard). But I figured they will last a year or two then I will get a proper job done. Unless the sail is fairly decent its not worth spending money modifying it for RR as its never going to be perfect anyway.
 
Some of the previous advice included sugestions for clipping the existing hanks onto the plastic sliders. DONT DO THIS you will damage the foil if you try to reef the sail. remove the existing hanks and use a webbing strap to secure the sail to the plastic slider. You will then be able to use it as a normal roller reefing sail.

Personally I would just have the sails modified by addition of a bolt rope as it will provide a better set.
 
I had these slides on my Hunter Delta 25.
She had a conventional roller reefing genoa.
These slides were intended to be used with the roller genoa removed and the original hank on sails hoisted as for a trad wire forestay.
You cannot roll up the hank-on sails on the foil with these slides.
 
Just a piece of advice for others that might contemplate this, you can not use laminated sails on a roller reef system. I have a beautiful and expensive laminated sail but could do with RR, unfortunately I will need to purchase a new Genoa as well.
 
I had an old No2 genoa fitted with slides as a backup to my normal Genoa which had a bolt rope, on a Colnbrook roller reefing system.
Two seasons ago a I managed to split the normal genoa ( too much wind + not enough reef!), and was able to change sails in about 5 minutes.
The boat sailed fine and roller reefed in exactly the same way as the bolt rope genoa, albeit the sail when fully wound up looked a bit baggy. Used it for about 6 weeks whilst the sailmaker put a new panel in the sail
 
Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge - If I get the chance before the end of the month, I'll have a go with the slides as if a normal forestay. I may even take the hanks off one of the sails, bind the slides on and see how the sail furls.

If things don't work out, I'll see whether these sails are suitable for conversion to RR (with bolt-rope, sacrificial strip, etc.).

Thanks again.

Andy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top