Can anyone advise on buying yacht in Holland?

[SeaAdventurePoznan]

We are planning to buy a yacht in Holland around 40-45 feet long.
I would appreciate if people who have already bought yachts in Holland could advise/suggest on:

1) how does the whole purchasing procedure look like in this country?
2) Is it better to pay the deposit in cash or via bank transfer?
3) Does any of you have access to a standard purchase agreement?

Thank you in advance for all tips.

All the best,
Tom

 

[beebok]

i have bought 2 sail boats in holland last boat was from the najad dealer,
very straight forward.
the first boat was from devalk easy to deal with.

i think the most improtant issue is to use a reputable dealer,choice your own surveyor.
first boat was a uk surveyor then second boat we used a dutch serveyor.

so go to it.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Your query will get greater exposure on Scuttlebutt which can be navigated to from here. This forum is for items for sale and is not the best place to get information from.

Good luck,

BlowingOldBoots

 

[corinthmistral]

Bought our boat in Holland in 2010. I would not hesitate to do so again.

I bought privately from a German chap who kept it on the Veerse Meer so, me=English, he=German, boat=in Holland. A few language difficulties but all went through fine and 18 months later I have no regrets.

Having done so:
- I used a broker to handle the sale contract and money transfer. I just paid a local broker (at Deltamarina Veerse Meer - Kortgene) EUR 500 to sort out the paperwork and money etc. As it was 1% of the value / money at risk, for me this was worth it.
- I used Duursma Versluis surveyors (spelling may be slightly incorrect), they are HISWA certified (HISWA is RYA equivalent) - this was acceptable to my uk insurers
- i wanted a vat certificate - see copy of an earlier post (below)
- i found the process fine, people very helpful and that boats generally were much better looked after
- cost of ownership in holland is much less than UK and very easy to travel to / from holland by ferry or air. I got a ferry from harwich with all our kit and a liferaft, train to nearest town then a taxi to the boat, then sailed home from Flushing.

Good luck!

"I bought my boat from Holland last year. It did not have a VAT certificate so I obtained one from the Dutch customs. They were very helpful indeed. You just fill in a form, submit whatever papers you have and they will issue a VAT paid certificate.

It sounds like you have this, but you can get confirmation from them if you wish. My certificate is approx A5 in size and roughly translated it just says that VAT was deemed to be paid on the boat.

The customs people were so helpful - when I called, the chap i needed to speak to (Hans Siereveld (or similar - i forget the exact spelling)) was out of the office so they gave me his mobile number. He asked me to call back at a specified time, which i did, and he sorted it all out for me. Took 1 week for me to have the certificate in the UK. Suggest call their main helpline number + 31 45 574 30 31. They put our customs officers to shame - they were totally useless when i spoke to them and always sit on the fence - they will say "in reality we are unlikely to enforce a VAT issue on the boat you may buy, and the invoice probably is sufficient to show VAT was paid" - totally non-committal, which is no use whatsoever if you just want to know whether the paperwork is sufficient to avoid you paying an additional 20% on the boat's value.

I would definitely buy in Holland again. Watch for some differences in the HISWA (RYA equivalent) standard sale terms - defects costing less than 10% of the boats value don't entitle you to withdraw from the sale, just make a cash adjustment. In my case i was not comfortable with potentially having to go through with the purchase on a boat that needed up to 5,000 of remedial work. So I just changed the clause to 5%, which was fine with the seller."

 

[Colvic Watson]

Hope the thread gets moved to scuttlebutt but in the meantime:

We bought a UK flagged yacht in Amsterdam last year and used the same surveyor mentioned above who ensured a 60% drop in the final asking price, I owe them a lot because we ended up spending a good part of that 60%

One major issue is that bringing a yacht back by road is an enormous headache if the total height is over (I think) 4.5m. If it is it adds about £4,000 to the bill we were 0.25m within the limit thankfully.

There are fixed rules about knocking money off the price as a result of the survey so check these first, you have a limited right to withdraw and keep your deposit if you don't like the survey.

We had three weeks in Amsterdam begore returning and found the Dutch to be a lovely bunch of people, funny, helpful and honest but if you need work done on the yacht beware because they have a high wage, high tax economy and it will cost you a lot, plus the Euro is relatively strong against the pound. Also we found that the cost of living using small local shops was simply eye watering, when we found a way to get to a large supermarket our bills dropped by 75%.

 

[ukmctc]

when I was looking, I was told "only bank not cash", "good brokerage", "choose your own surveyor" and you won't have any problems.
Yachts in America 40-48 foot going really cheap just now, less than in Holland.

 

[Tranona]

Yachts in America 40-48 foot going really cheap just now, less than in Holland.

But not suitable or economic in most cases to bring them to the EU. It is not the buying price in US$ that is important, it is the landed price in £/Euros including freight, duty, VAT and the cost of complying with the RCD to get a CE mark before it can be used legally in the EU.

 

[Danny_Labrador]

But not suitable or economic in most cases to bring them to the EU. It is not the buying price in US$ that is important, it is the landed price in £/Euros including freight, duty, VAT and the cost of complying with the RCD to get a CE mark before it can be used legally in the EU.

If the yacht was originally manufactured in the EU (exported to USA) would that make a difference ?

 

[Tranona]

If the yacht was originally manufactured in the EU (exported to USA) would that make a difference ?

Yes, from the RCD point of view if was built in the EEA it will not need a CE mark. Such boats can be good value - particularly if they are together bluewater boats that can be sailed over to avoid shipping costs. Still liable for duty and VAT though. Higher value modern EEA built boats are not significantly cheaper over there - it is the bigger, older US built and older smaller EEA boats that have lower values there and look attractive until you do the sums. They are often worn out as well compared with similar boats in Europe partly because they are low value and people don't spend money on them.

 

[multihullsailor6]

I bought my boat in Holland and had a Dutch VAT payment receipt amongst the documentation. When I checked in to the UK with the boat the BA officer was most interested in this VAT receipt which I had personally translated into English. Make sure you get one!

 

[Danny_Labrador]

VAT

I know that I am spinning this on its head a bit (apologies to the OP) but does anyone have any personal knowledge of bringing a boat to the UK and then paying the VAT ?

Essentially from outside the EU.

I am interested on how they (HMRC) value the craft to gt to their 20% worth ?

 

[Tranona]

The process is covered in detail in HMRC VAT Notice No8 or a summarised account in the Legal section on the RYA site. Nothing magic about valuation. Normally your purchase price, but an alternative of valuation if for example you bought it a long time before importation (meaning market value is lower than your purchase price) or you spent significant sums on refitting the boat post purchase but before importation.

 

[Tranona]

I bought my boat in Holland and had a Dutch VAT payment receipt amongst the documentation. When I checked in to the UK with the boat the BA officer was most interested in this VAT receipt which I had personally translated into English. Make sure you get one!

Such certificates are, however meaningless as the VAT status of a boat can subsequently change, for example if the boat left the EU and was re-imported. HMRC stopped issuing such certificates years ago when they realised they did not do what they claim to do and have no legal standing (see the FAQs download on the RYA site for further explanantion).

The only acceptable evidence is the original VAT invoice from the last transaction where VAT was charged. Exceptions are older boats with "deemed VAT paid status" where different evidence is accepted - again see the HMRC explanation in the FAQs.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Yes, from the RCD point of view if was built in the EEA it will not need a CE mark. Such boats can be good value - particularly if they are together bluewater boats that can be sailed over to avoid shipping costs. Still liable for duty and VAT though. Higher value modern EEA built boats are not significantly cheaper over there - it is the bigger, older US built and older smaller EEA boats that have lower values there and look attractive until you do the sums. They are often worn out as well compared with similar boats in Europe partly because they are low value and people don't spend money on them.

Tranona - one of the major costs of compliance with the RCD is the engine, where much stricter emissions regs could make it necessary to change the engine. I know of one case where the engine has done only 400 hours and apparently needs to be changed.....

 

[Tranona]

Yes, but many modern engines from major manufacturers will meet EU requirements - just need to get a certificate from the manufacturer. It is older engines and those that are not sold in the EU that are a potential problem.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Yes, but many modern engines from major manufacturers will meet EU requirements - just need to get a certificate from the manufacturer. It is older engines and those that are not sold in the EU that are a potential problem.

This is a brand new engine (don't know type) and also a Westerbeake genset which also does not comply. Quite why, I don't know. The owner has taken his boat to Turkey rather than try to bring it into the UK.

 

[Tranona]

This is a brand new engine (don't know type) and also a Westerbeake genset which also does not comply. Quite why, I don't know. The owner has taken his boat to Turkey rather than try to bring it into the UK.

Suspect the manufacturers have not bothered to get a CE mark because they don't intend selling in the EU. Probably do meet the spec - just no piece of paper so will have to be individually tested.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Suspect the manufacturers have not bothered to get a CE mark because they don't intend selling in the EU. Probably do meet the spec - just no piece of paper so will have to be individually tested.

That is exactly the problem - plus all the rest and its totalling some 30K on top of VAT on a 54 footer! which is a one off build - so in itself more expensive. Perhaps he bought the wrong boat - but he loves it....

 

[Tranona]

That is exactly the problem - plus all the rest and its totalling some 30K on top of VAT on a 54 footer! which is a one off build - so in itself more expensive. Perhaps he bought the wrong boat - but he loves it....

Somewhat naive to have a boat built for use in the EU (if that was the intention) and not make sure it was legal to use it! Cost of compliance with RCD is not high in relation to the overall cost if the boat was built with that in mind.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Somewhat naive to have a boat built for use in the EU (if that was the intention) and not make sure it was legal to use it! Cost of compliance with RCD is not high in relation to the overall cost if the boat was built with that in mind.

No - he bought her some years ago s/h in the states and has sailed there for several years. He has got a bit attached to her! He cannot bring her into the EU because of this problem.