burgundyben
Well-known member
I was just wondering, say a biggish containership, 10000 TEU broke down, prop fell off, so its drifting about, a passing oil tanker, big one, could it take the containership in tow?
Can a ship tow a ship?
- Thread starter burgundyben
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AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
I don't know, but I imagine the main factor would be the lack of suitable strong points, and probably they don't carry suitable towing wires. Tugs are very heavily engineered around their towing gear, and the location of the towing point matters, too.
The engine power is probably sufficient, but the lack of suitable strong points might be the engineering killer.
However, I think the real killer would be that they'd be uninsured if they tried it; they'd be acting well outside their classification. There's also salvage law!
The engine power is probably sufficient, but the lack of suitable strong points might be the engineering killer.
However, I think the real killer would be that they'd be uninsured if they tried it; they'd be acting well outside their classification. There's also salvage law!
Poignard
Well-known member
No. The job requires specialist equipment and expertise such as Smit Salvage is able to provide world-wide.
The tanker's owners wouldn't appreciate its master trying: thereby risking his ship and delaying his voyage.
The tanker's owners wouldn't appreciate its master trying: thereby risking his ship and delaying his voyage.
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Neeves
Well-known member
If you ever see tugs towing large vessels offshore the tow lines are immensely long, so long you might not think that the one is towing the other. They are long to try to minimise snatch loads.. I cannot think of any reason why a commercial vessel would have such long lengths of 'cordage', wire or textile. The tow lines are only shortened up when they get close to wherever they are going so as to allow manoverability.
Similarly if we (ie you) were to tow someone a long stretchy line is the way to go.
Jonathan
Bajansailor
Well-known member
I have been on ships that have emergency towing wires assembled and ready to be deployed = but these are just the bridles for the towing line to be attached to.
Ships should (but often don't) have the SWL of the mooring bollards welded / inscribed on them and a cruise ship might typically have bollards that can take 150+ tonnes.
But as noted above, they do not generally have very long lengths of very strong towing hawser type ropes on board, and it would probably be difficult to cobble together something from mooring warps.
@Kukri manages container ships, and I am sure that he has some thoughts on the subject.
Ships should (but often don't) have the SWL of the mooring bollards welded / inscribed on them and a cruise ship might typically have bollards that can take 150+ tonnes.
But as noted above, they do not generally have very long lengths of very strong towing hawser type ropes on board, and it would probably be difficult to cobble together something from mooring warps.
@Kukri manages container ships, and I am sure that he has some thoughts on the subject.
Neeves
Well-known member
The other problem I envisage - if they carried wire - how would they get it from one ship to another in rough water. I'm sure there is a way, light line (but then you need lots of light line as well) and how do you get light line from one ship to another - they are not really geared up for close ship to ship manoeuvring and they don't normally carry small MoBos.
But its an interesting issue as the alternative might be a bulk carrier on the rocks scattering its cargo of crude over all the nearby beaches.
Jonathan
Neeves
Well-known member
This was in the eastern Med 10/12 years ago.
Its easy to miss the tow 'rope' - one clue was - they were moving so slowly.
Jonathan
Its easy to miss the tow 'rope' - one clue was - they were moving so slowly.
Jonathan
scottie
Well-known member
Some ships have long lengths of chain onboard ?
mjcoon
Well-known member
I like to watch the series of UK TV programmes about RNLI rescues. They sometimes tow moderately large ships, and tow lines break. I don't remember them saying how they cope with I presume how the two broken ends fly towards the vessel to which they are still attached with the stretch energy...
R.Ems
Active member
Trawlers, eg Grimsby sidewinders, used to carry towing gear for other similar vessels, (especially of the same company) and towed each other on various occasions over the years. 500-1000 tons not 100,000 though.. and the engines and props were optimised to drag heavy nets over the seabed at a walking pace. Unlike box boats designed for economic cruising.
Big ships, as said above, forget it for numerous reasons.
Mind you, I believe at least one man of war was towed back from the battle of Trafalgar, under sail!
Big ships, as said above, forget it for numerous reasons.
Mind you, I believe at least one man of war was towed back from the battle of Trafalgar, under sail!
Neeves
Well-known member
capnsensible
Well-known member
On the subject of tugs.
Two tales.
I saw an oil rig platform being towed through the Straits of Gibraltar some years ago. 4vtugs involved and regular vhf warnings.
The tow was 2 miles long. They were making two knots.....
On another occasion, same place, one of the old RN carriers was being towed to a turkish breakers.
They got past Gib with an increasing west wind. The carrier was threatening to overtake the tow as the winds neared storm force . They had to turn round and make their way slowly back westwards through the night and try again next day.
Towing needs patience! An ex diver friend of mine now earns a good living crewing on vessels under tow.
Two tales.
I saw an oil rig platform being towed through the Straits of Gibraltar some years ago. 4vtugs involved and regular vhf warnings.
The tow was 2 miles long. They were making two knots.....
On another occasion, same place, one of the old RN carriers was being towed to a turkish breakers.
They got past Gib with an increasing west wind. The carrier was threatening to overtake the tow as the winds neared storm force . They had to turn round and make their way slowly back westwards through the night and try again next day.
Towing needs patience! An ex diver friend of mine now earns a good living crewing on vessels under tow.
LittleSister
Well-known member
I still get a shiver when I recall many years ago, on one my earliest cruising trips, we were cautiously and deliberately passing behind a crossing small ship one murky dawn in the middle of the North Sea, when we belatedly saw emerging from the mist behind it some sort of very low and wide floating platform that it was towing. We were just about to pass between the two!
Quite an incentive to get some formal training, and I'll now never forget the basic towing lights.
And/or use a good length of chain in the centre of the tow line - either as part of the line itself or suspended from it. This is very effective at minimising snatching. With enough chain the line is never straight. The towing vessel's forward movement lifts the chain's weight, while the sinking chain pulls the towed vessel forwards.
chrishscorp
Well-known member
RNLI have used their boats to 'tow' much bigger ships, but in reality it is more about holding a ship in position till more appropriate assistance is on scene
Neeves
Well-known member
I still get a shiver when I recall many years ago, on one my earliest cruising trips, we were cautiously and deliberately passing behind a crossing small ship one murky dawn in the middle of the North Sea, when we belatedly saw emerging from the mist behind it some sort of very low and wide floating platform that it was towing. We were just about to pass between the two!
Quite an incentive to get some formal training, and I'll now never forget the basic towing lights.
Been there, done that - very sobering, I also get the shivers.
But you quickly learn
Jonathan
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
In the case of a line for towing a ship, it would be difficult to add enough weight to make a difference, and if you did, it would increase the static tension in the line considerably. Think of "swigging" up a halliard by pulling it sideways away from the mast! It's a good idea for small craft, where the breaking strain of the tow line will be of the same order as the displacement of the vessels, but for a ship, where the towing line is proportionally far weaker, you probably don't want to increase the tension any more than necessary.
Just for perspective - you could probably lift Capricious, a Moody 31, by two of her mooring lines. Try that with a ship, and see how far you'd get!
johnalison
Well-known member
I had a similar experience when crossing the North Sea at night. A vessel approached from the north showing a mass of lights. From memory I think that all I could see was white lights including some scanning around. Our companion boat chose to go ahead as they were in front of us and I altered course to pass astern. It was a good thing that I gave them a wide berth because there was a massive vessel being towed about a mile astern with no lights at all.I still get a shiver when I recall many years ago, on one my earliest cruising trips, we were cautiously and deliberately passing behind a crossing small ship one murky dawn in the middle of the North Sea, when we belatedly saw emerging from the mist behind it some sort of very low and wide floating platform that it was towing. We were just about to pass between the two!
LittleSister
Well-known member
I agree. I have no plans to tow a ship, and was responding to Neeve's suggestion about how we might do it on small craft.
Neeves
Well-known member
The problem with small craft, me towing you (no disrespect to the size of your yacht) is that we don't have long lines, or not very long, most of our lines have minimal elasticity and the impact of chop, or swell is proportionately greater for us - you really need something to smooth out the snatch loads. If its a short tow, from outside to inside a breakwater no issues but if it miles - it needs careful thought.
Its not such an unusual scenario - a yacht having lost a mast, for example (though if they have lost a mast you could get the length by using one or three of their halyards.
I hate to mention long snubbers and I'll try not to mention climbing rope. (but they would give the elasticity.
Jonathan
Its not such an unusual scenario - a yacht having lost a mast, for example (though if they have lost a mast you could get the length by using one or three of their halyards.
I hate to mention long snubbers
and I'll try not to mention climbing rope. (but they would give the elasticity.Jonathan
LittleSister
Well-known member
When towing in very sheltered waters, towing alongside is very manageable and may be suitable. Make sure you don't get hit by the wake of a passing ferry while you're at it, though. (How do I know that? )
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