Can a portable VHF be registered to a windmill or a person ?

[funk-an-bord.de]

I am teaching in Germany SRC courses for sailors.
The radio license to use a VHF radio is given by a office similar as Ofcom.
But the license is dedicated to ship and not to a person.

I was asked to train offshore workers on windfarms to a SRC examination.
Its is fine when they understand the GMDSS system etc.
But they need the portable radio when comunication with the ship providing material or a helicopter.
By definition the ship license to use a VHF radio is restricted to ships.
A windmill is not a ship.
And worker on a windmill using his personal VHF is not seen in the regulations.

My question:
what is the solution in real life in UK:
- can a windmill get a radio license
- can a radio license be given to a person?
Thanks, Wilhelm

 

[jerrytug]

I am teaching in Germany SRC courses for sailors.
The radio license to use a VHF radio is given by a office similar as Ofcom.
But the license is dedicated to ship and not to a person.

I was asked to train offshore workers on windfarms to a SRC examination.
Its is fine when they understand the GMDSS system etc.
But they need the portable radio when comunication with the ship providing material or a helicopter.
By definition the ship license to use a VHF radio is restricted to ships.
A windmill is not a ship.
And worker on a windmill using his personal VHF is not seen in the regulations.

My question:
what is the solution in real life in UK:
- can a windmill get a radio license
- can a radio license be given to a person?
Thanks, Wilhelm

Hello you apply to Ofcom for a T number, for a hand held radio.
It is obviously a very common situation for people who want to use their own VHF on different vessels.
I have two, you can use one for a hand held DSC VHF as well, and it's free, if you register online.

 

[prv]

As Jerrytug says, in the UK we can get a "Ship Portable" license, which allows the holder to use a battery-powered radio on any vessel. That would solve the problem, except that as far as I know it's a UK-only thing. I think one of the conditions of the license is that it only be used in UK waters, though that's often not followed.

Pete

 

[Bilgediver]

I am teaching in Germany SRC courses for sailors.
The radio license to use a VHF radio is given by a office similar as Ofcom.
But the license is dedicated to ship and not to a person.

I was asked to train offshore workers on windfarms to a SRC examination.
Its is fine when they understand the GMDSS system etc.
But they need the portable radio when comunication with the ship providing material or a helicopter.
By definition the ship license to use a VHF radio is restricted to ships.
A windmill is not a ship.
And worker on a windmill using his personal VHF is not seen in the regulations.

My question:
what is the solution in real life in UK:
- can a windmill get a radio license
- can a radio license be given to a person?
Thanks, Wilhelm

In the UK you have to methods of licensing a hand held VHF.

A... You can include it in the Radio details of a boat/ship license.

B... You can Obtain what we refer to as a T License where the radio is licensed to a person
or company. Not allocated to a particular ship. However the operator also requires a
VHF license or be under the supervision of a licence holder.

Choice B should be the route over there and it is not unusual for marine radios to be used on marine construction sites such as wind farms (windmills) as well as offshore oil installations though possibly a grey area in the legal sense.

Neither of these licenses cover Airband VHF. That is a separate issue unless using marine frequencies.

We have all sorts of marine VHF activity at present as a result of the building of the new Forth Bridge and many of the operators could benefit from your courses

 

[ShinyShoe]

Hello you apply to Ofcom for a T number, for a hand held radio.

As this guy is teaching I'm guessing he knows about t numbers. I guess the question is... Can I legally be on a wind farm tower which is not floating so not a ship and transmit to a support vessel on say CH8. And I suspect the correct answer is no. But they could have a private channel like 37m for the farm. Ideally using simplex. Then they wouldn't even need training. Give them a set with 16 available as don't need a licence to use 16 in an emergency.

 

[funk-an-bord.de]

Thank you for the information.
In Germany there is not such a Portable Shoip License.
But I am not afraind to bring such a proposal to the right person.
For that I am collecting some more information:
I found on
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra385.htm
...This information will be made available to the International Telecommunication Union
My question:
is such a personal Portable License registered in the ITU data base MARS at
http://www.itu.int/online/mms/mars/ship_search.sh
If someone can check if his Personal License is registered in the MARS database. Thanks

If yes, the international ITU regulations have incorporated such a Personal License into the RadioRegulation and it would be only a decision on the national level in Germany to implement the international regulation into german law context.
I found the information policy of the ITU quite open and would like to get a real live example in UK or some other nations.
And in a second step to contact the
http://www.itu.int/md/R00-CA-CIR-0212/en
Thanks, Wilhelm

 

[funk-an-bord.de]

Can I legally be on a wind farm tower which is not floating so not a ship and transmit to a support vessel on say CH8. And I suspect the correct answer is no.
But they could have a private channel like 37m for the farm.

Thank you, regardint the private channel
I a aware that the german "Ofcom" is quite restrictive:
- there is no Personal Licence
- there are no Private Channels as 37a for marina usage.
Some german sailing marinas got a licence for channel 69 which is used in Germany nonexclusevely for social contacts.

So my current aproach is to collect real world examples which meet the Radio Regulations and are implemented on national level in UK ore other nations.
Having these information in hand I can discuss with my contacts in the windfarm industry.
And at the end that will be a long way.

But the offshore windfarms are outside the 12 miles.
So I asume the company / worker on the windmill have only to respect the international Radio Regulation.
There might be more complicated legal issues: "if a windmill is not a ship and the flag state regulations cover only ships"
So I am interested in some real life examples.

Thanks, Wilhelm

 

[penfold]

As this guy is teaching I'm guessing he knows about t numbers. I guess the question is... Can I legally be on a wind farm tower which is not floating so not a ship and transmit to a support vessel on say CH8. And I suspect the correct answer is no. But they could have a private channel like 37m for the farm. Ideally using simplex. Then they wouldn't even need training. Give them a set with 16 available as don't need a licence to use 16 in an emergency.

There are lots of oilrigs in the North Sea, some floating, some on legs standing on the seabed; all of them use VHF for comms with ships. There are rules about that kind of thing but frankly life is too short and Ofcom don't seem very interested in anything outside the 12 mile limit.

 

[ShinyShoe]

There are lots of oilrigs in the North Sea, some floating, some on legs standing on the seabed; all of them use VHF for comms with ships. There are rules about that kind of thing but frankly life is too short and Ofcom don't seem very interested in anything outside the 12 mile limit.

Penfold. I completely agree... 12NM out using a suitable channel at suitable power so as not to interfere with others who will care. And the simple answer is no-one. At least until there is an incident and the German equivalent of the MAIB are crawling all over it.

Off shore installations (oil rigs) have very similar legal power to ships so I expect (haven't checked) they are regarded in similar ways for vhf. They will have ais etc. Do wind farms?

On the private channel discussion it seems strange that there are no private channels. 37m is a special case (almost) every UK radio can talk to it. But ferries etc use private channels routinely for the stevedores to talk to the bridge etc. Some may be using UHF rather than VHF some may be using unlicenced 446mhz but pretty sure others will be using VHF and often in the Mari e range. They would need their VHF programmed by dealer. Would be surprised if Germany didn't permit lending it this channels at a premium... Lord knows what happens >12nm off shore with those licences though...

 

[prv]

As this guy is teaching I'm guessing he knows about t numbers.

He's teaching in Germany where they apparently don't have "T number" licenses.

Pete

 

[prv]

My question:
is such a personal Portable License registered in the ITU data base MARS at
http://www.itu.int/online/mms/mars/ship_search.sh
If someone can check if his Personal License is registered in the MARS database. Thanks

I have a Ship Portable license and I tried to look it up for you. However, there's nothing I can put in the search fields:

• Ship Name
• Call Sign
• MMSI
• Administrations/geographical areas
• EPIRB ID code (MMSI / MID + Call Sign)
• EPIRB Hex ID code
• IMO or national registration no.

None of these are applicable to my Portable license. I did try putting the number (with and without the preceding T) into some of the boxes like "Ship Name" and "National registration number" but with no result.

If you have access to any other search tools, my Portable license number is T125726 and you can try to find it.

However, I would not be surprised to learn that these licenses are not recorded in international databases. The license text is divided into a general part, a part for Ship Stations only, and a part for Ship Portable stations only. The very first item in the Ship Portable section is:

Schedule 2 – applicable to a Ship Portable Radio Licence
Radio equipment use
1 This Licence covers the use of the radio equipment in UK territorial waters.

Pete

 

[prv]

Off shore installations (oil rigs) have very similar legal power to ships so I expect (haven't checked) they are regarded in similar ways for vhf.

Since I've got my license PDF out to help with Wilhelm's lookup query, I had a quick skim through. It includes the following:

(g) the terms 'ship' and 'vessel' also include:

(i) a hovercraft;
(ii) a light station;
(iii) installations to which the Continental Shelf Act 1964 applies;
(iv) other structures within the United Kingdom's territorial (external) waters; and
(v) a survival craft.
​

I haven't bothered looking up the Continental Shelf Act 1964, but I suspect it's used to apply UK law to oil rigs etc that are outside the 12 mile limit.

Pete

 

[funk-an-bord.de]

None of these are applicable to my Portable license. I did try putting the number (with and without the preceding T) into some of the boxes like "Ship Name" and "National registration number" but with no result.

If you have access to any other search tools, my Portable license number is T125726 and you can try to find it.

I tried with each of the 4 MID für UK:
232, 233, 234, 235
and in addition your 6 digits = 125726. Thats are in total 9 digits as the MMSI is constructed.
But I got no results.
In Germany we have 211 and 218 and both are in usage.
My idea was, that in UK one of the 4 MID is not yet in use and might be dedicated for the Portable License.
Greetings, Wilhelm

 

[RAI]

I suspect this is a national thing. For example, Belgium will license EPRIBs but not PLBs. (So I registered my PLB in the UK).

 

[prv]

I tried with each of the 4 MID für UK:
232, 233, 234, 235
and in addition your 6 digits = 125726. Thats are in total 9 digits as the MMSI is constructed.

But this number is not an MMSI. It is simply a unique identifier for the portable radio, since we cannot use a vessel name or callsign because the radio may be moved from vessel to vessel. I think these numbers were used before MMSIs were invented.

If you have a handheld DSC set, and you register it as a Ship Portable, then you get an MMSI as well, which will not match the T number. This is relatively new (within the last few years) - before that nobody quite knew how to handle DSC portables (and I think they may not have been legal here, in fact).

My Ship Portable license is for a non-DSC radio, so there is no MMSI associated with the license.

Pete

 

[funk-an-bord.de]

If you have a handheld DSC set, and you register it as a Ship Portable, then you get an MMSI as well, which will not match the T number.

Thats ok,
the handheld VHF with DSC will send the MMSI
and for that MMSI number is a data record in the international MARS database
Thanks, Wilhelm

 

[prv]

Thats ok,
the handheld VHF with DSC will send the MMSI
and for that MMSI number is a data record in the international MARS database

Yes - what I meant is that there was no point in you trying to turn my T-number into an MMSI when searching for it. That makes no more sense than adding 235 onto the front of my office telephone number

It would be interesting if someone with a DSC Ship Portable license could see if they have a record in MARS, and if so what details are filled in.

Pete

 

[ShinyShoe]

Yes - what I meant is that there was no point in you trying to turn my T-number into an MMSI when searching for it. That makes no more sense than adding 235 onto the front of my office telephone number

It would be interesting if someone with a DSC Ship Portable license could see if they have a record in MARS, and if so what details are filled in.

Pete

Used someone I knows and as i thought the handheld MMSI is not in the database. I think registration is like the T No's only for use in the UK (in theory).

Handheld DSC sets have numbers 2359...

The T No would probably be the callsign in the database if they registered it. But they dont

 

[prv]

Used someone I knows and as i thought the handheld MMSI is not in the database. I think registration is like the T No's only for use in the UK (in theory).

Handheld DSC sets have numbers 2359...

The T No would probably be the callsign in the database if they registered it. But they dont

That all matches what I would expect - thanks for checking.

Agree the T number is the closest thing to a callsign. The license says you may use it to uniquely identify your calls. I can't quite think why you'd want to, but just in case I have my T number on a label on the side of the radio.

Pete

 

[funk-an-bord.de]

Handheld DSC sets have numbers 2359...

Thank you, Wilhelm