Camping gaz in the Baltic

[yvonneward]

We are planning a long trip to the Baltic this summer, perhaps even overwintering there and will no doubt be asking lots of questions on this forum. I, the cook (amongst many other things!) have read in the RCC Pilotage of the Baltic Sea that there are challenges with cooking gas cylinders. Our Bowman Starlight 35 uses camping gaz cylinders in a fixed locker. The Pilot says that in Sweden and other places you cannot get refills because they use propane bottles which are bigger than our small gaz bottles. Does anyone know the dimensions of these bottles, so that I can measure them against my locker. Has anyone any experience with this or any ideas how it can be overcome. The Pilot suggests taking lots of spare cylinders or cooking over an open fire; neither option appeals!

 

[Stork_III]

My HR uses a 6 kg Calor Gas bottle (Propane - red bottles) in its gas locker, standard fitment by HR. They use propane as it gasses at lower temperatures, when butane would stop, in their winters.

Check out the sizes of 6 kg and 4.5 kg, same sizes as butane (blue) in a suppliers, this is what you will get in Baltic. You may have to change the pressure regulator, for their bottles as Calor is British only, I think. Speak to the Calor Centre in Soton, they will probably know.

 

[pandroid]

You can widely get the normal (907) Camping Gaz cylinder in Denmark and Germany. Its possible, although rather more difficult and expensive in Sweden, and somewhat harder in Finland. The Propane bottles come in a range of sizes, but the most popular are 2kg, smaller (though a little wider) than the normal Camping Gaz (2.75kg). You can also get 5,6,10 and 11 kg. You just change the regulator and bottle fitting.

We keep our boat in Sweden and havent bothered to change (yet).

 

[VicMallows]

You will most definately need to use propane if you overwinter; even in the South of England in can be too cold for butane in the winter. (Camping Gaz is always butane). Also, the gas gets MUCH cheaper, the larger the cylinder. I have the problem that the gas locker on my Sadler 29 will only take Camping: I keep an emergency spare in there and use large (7kg) cylinders strapped in at the rear of the cockpit. You will need to obtain 'local' cylinders there in order to be able to exchange them, along with a regulator to fit.

Vic

 

[yvonneward]

Vic, thanks very much. We had a Sadler 29 until September last year. She was great! I am trying to envisage strapping a large cylinder in the cockpit. Whereabouts exactly did it sit? Did you leave it there all the time or just put it out when "camping"? Thanks again,

 

[yvonneward]

Thank you very much for this useful information. You say that you keep your boat in Sweden. I have a few "housekeeping" questions about that.

1.Have you not changed yet because you have always managed to get Butane?

2. How do you stop upholstery and bedding from getting mildewed overwintering?

3. Can you keep a dehumidifier going there over winter, which is what I do here?

4. How much personal kit do you bring home when you leave the boat , or do you have 2 of everything?

How do you travel home?

I am so grateful for your help.

 

[yvonneward]

Very many thanks. I will speak to the Calor people in Southampton on Monday.

 

[VicMallows]

They are strapped against the transom, and two bottles will fit in the middle leaving the '29 cockpit drains clear. The cockpit drains (as you know, but for others, above water with no sea-cocks) serve to provide a 'gas drain'. I don't find they interfere in the cockpit at all, though of course some may find them unatractive.

I'm currently using a 7kg and a 3.5kg Calor (the sort with a hinged handle), but the later is only because I can't source a new 50mb regulator to run the fridge. (former German/Scandinavian standard; usual UK is 28mb butane, 37mb propane).

As already pointed out, the Calor Centre in Southampton (Peter Speedborough) is very helpful even when it comes to overseas.

Vic

 

[Guest]

I live in Baltic ....

Gas here is a mix of Propane and Butane .... about 90% P, 10% B ............. in ORANGEY RED cylinders (international colour code)

The RED cylinders generally available are large - same as on Mobile Home sites in UK, regulators are same as well. Small cylinders are available to similar size as Calor Gas jobs .... the blue ones.

Camping Gaz is available ........ you have to visit fishing tackle / gun shops - as they do them for hunters etc. Price in Latvia for the screw-onto bottom of hob job ... is about £1 each. To get larger ?? Never seen them larger than the single burner type ....

But at end of day .......... if you get a propane regulator - the red one - yopu should be able to connect a propane cylinder from out here .... In my house we were supplied a Town Gas jet'ted hob for the new kitchen ... we used it without regulator from the 3 cu.mtr Propane tank in garden for 3 weeks while waiting for correct jets etc. Only thing lacking was fine control of the flame ........

FYI - The little 2 hob camping job that RNLI catalogue shows - with the aerosol type gas cans is available out here .... in SUMMER only !!

If you need help on Former Soviet side of Baltic .......... PM me .................

 

[DavidMcMullan]

For cylinder dimensions, try the Calor Marine website:
http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/installation/maximum_offtake.htm

 

[Guest]

As was mentioned in another post, you can get the camping gas style cyclinders in Germany in Denmark without a problem. We also found it is Sweden, but you have to look harder the further North you get. More specifically, we found it in Kalmar, and in Vasahamnen in Stockholm. We didn't find any in Finland, but then we didn't look very hard.

 

[peterb]

Caravans

I agree with Kalmar and the Wasahamnen. We had problems with getting Camping Gaz in Kiel, but ended up getting it at a large caravan site. Apparently there is a fair trade in Camping Gaz for touring caravans in the summer, so many of the larger sites keep it.

Incidentally, if you are heading in to the Wasahamnen in Stockholm, it's worth noting that while they do keep Camping Gaz, they don't keep diesel.

 

[chrisc]

If you are overwintering in (northern) baltic you will propobally be better to change to propane as calor doesn't work very well at low temperatures .if whowever you are just spending the summer ,it is possible ,although sometimes not convenient, to refill your calor gas bottles in most larger towns.
or cheat as we sometimes do on extended trips, use an electric two plate ,cooker very flat-slides under our stove when not in use ,very cheap -30 squids, and as you are sitting in a harbour' plugged in 'might as well use the facility....i have been known to use the gas cooker and the electric to produce five course meals for six.

 

[pandroid]

OK Answers:
1. Yes, basically. We have a set of clamps in our gas locker that fit the Gaz bottle and its a pain to change. We've never run out (yet)
2. Just let the air circulate. We keep the boat in a shed, which helps, they tend to get more damp if left outside.
3. We used to keep a dehumidifier going in the UK, but there's no point in the Baltic. Dehumidifiers dont work below 0 degrees, and mildew doesnt grow below freezing. Its not like the UK.
4.We tend to have 2 of everything, but take a stack of stuff home at the end of the year mainly to wash it, or if it needs servicing. There's no real problem leaving stuff on the boat, but its a good idea to pack clothes if you leave them in the vacumn bags from Lakeland. I'd also take stuff like computers home. We take a car load out in the spring, and bring it back in the autumn. The ferries are expensive, but are OK if doing it once a year. In the summer, we leave the car at the airport, and go to and fro by Ryanair.

The critical thing, particularly in the more northern areas, is to winterize properly. This means dumping ANYTHING that has water in it, and blowing the lines out with compressed air. Further south, its no big deal. The yards know the drill.

PM me if you want some more tips, or see our website

 

[mithril]

Hi Guys

You seem to be getting lots of good advice regarding gas in the Baltic but rather than comment on that advise let me say, dont worry.

We spent last summer in the Baltic, we sailed from Harwich in May returning to Eastbourne in October and covering 3500 miles. During that time we dined ashore maybe twice each month so its fair to say we used plenty of gas.

Mithril, our Endurance 38, carries four 3.9Kg cylinders of Propane and each cylinder seems to last between 3 and 4 weeks. In Finland we were down to our last cylinder so I purchased a Finnish propane cylinder and decanted the gas into our cylinders. Simple really. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif For details see our web site www.yachtsite.co.uk/mithril The site, quite simply, is a log of last years trip and so is very relevant to you and your plans.

A feew comments

- Use Propane not Butane as Butane is poor even in cold UK weather.
- Propaneis available everywhere in the Baltic.
- Baltic regulators seem to be slightly lower in pressure but we couldn't tell the difference.
- I think German, Danish and Finnish regulators are alike.
- Every country has its own bottles, and local retalers reject all others, so unless you take them to the big city bottle fillers forget refills. Although we did find an enterprising chandler at Kalmar it Sweden who did refill (by exchange) Finnish bottles.
-I'd recommend buying a Swedish cylinder, if you pass that way, as the Swedish hardware shops have everything you need to decant into your UK bottles.

But if you decide to stay in a country long term buy a local bottle and regulator. . . . . . or go electric as many cruisers seem to do.

Do visit the web site and read our antics.